[kenrexford]

♠AQJ9x ♥x ♦Jx ♣10xxxx

Partner opens 1♣, you bid 1♠, partner bids 2♥.

How interested are you?



♠J10xxx ♥K ♦Jxx ♣KJxx

Partner opens 1♣, you bid 1♠, partner bids 2♦.

How interested are you?

[ArtK78]

More interested on the first hand than the second, especially if partner raises spades on the next round.

I am bidding 2♠ on both hands.

EDIT: Sorry - I must have posted this before I was awake this morning. I didn't even notice that partner opened the bidding in my second suit.

Of course it is right to force to game with a 3♣ rebid. Still, hand #1 is better suited for slam exploration than hand #2, especially if partner raises spades.

[P_Marlowe]

I am bored,I would always bid 3C (gf)
and await further development.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[dicklont]

3♣ on both hands.

With both hands I'm not very excited yet, but the second could easily produce slam opposite a singleton spade.

[pirate22]

agree with dicklont

[mikeh]

The first hand is definitely more interesting, in the sense of contemplating slam.

This hand is so good that, if I were permitted only one call, I would bid 6♣ Fortunately, I don't have to make that guess.

I am not looking to play in spades on either of these unless partner shows 3 card support over my natural and forcing to game 3♣.

I strongly believe that rebidding spades on either would be an error. On the first, because we will have real problems catching up, in terms of our amazing club support, and on the second, because the suit is horrible.

[andy_h]

I'm more interested in hand 1 in terms of club slam so I will bid 3C natural forcing to game since I may not be able to catch up with this huge 5card support later if I bid 2S.

Hand 2 I would also bid 3C and will raise to 4S if partner bids 3S over 3C.

[hanp]

Playing 2S as forcing with 5+ as I do, I think you should often raise partner's suit with a good hand and fit even if you have 5+ spades.

[kenrexford]

I suppose I asked both questions too vaguely.

By "how interested," I really mean this:

Are you willing to play 3NT if partner does not show spade support? Or, will you inist upon entering the four-level if partner suggests a signoff?

[hanp]

It would be easier if you tried to talk bridge instead of doing he cool guy routine.

I would not play 3NT with either hand. On the first hand our club fit and potential is just too large. On the second hand, if partner bids 3NT over 3C there is a good chance that partner has a stiff club. Now our slam chances have gone up tremendously and even 5C might be better than 3NT. Our heart king is also more likely to be useful

Form of scoring seems relevant for this kind of question. It is hard to construct hands where 5C is in danger so at IMPs bidding on seems automatic.

[mikeh]

On the second one, allowing partner to play 3N seems obvious. I cannot imagine pulling if partner bids 3N over my 3♣. Any move over that has to be slamming, to some degree, and this hand is nothing like that.

The first hand is MUCH tougher... how is partner to know that x AJxx KQx AKxxx is awesome while x AKxx KQx AJxxx is hopeless? Well, I think he does have a clue... if his clubs are good and he has controls, he shouldn't bid 3N. So when he does, he either has bad clubs or he has a minimum with relatively few controls (or both) and in that case we shouldn't move... one can come up with hands on which both 4N and 5♣ are in jeopardy in those circumstances.

But this is a matter of partnership style/confidence. If your partner is, for example, as likely to hold my first example as my second, then you are guessing.

[kenrexford]

mikeh, on May 1 2009, 11:43 AM, said:

But this is a matter of partnership style/confidence. If your partner is, for example, as likely to hold my first example as my second, then you are guessing.

Well, this was key in practice. Partner, who is a local-game friend, was out of his mind. On the first hand, he had 1-4-4-4 pattern with 15 HCP, a no-brainer 1NT rebid. On the second, he did have 17 HCP, but with Q-Qxx as four of his points and what I think would be better bid with either a simple 2♣ rebid (lowballing) or a 2NT rebid if aggressive.

But, I was curious as to how y'all would handle these hands with an expert partner.

[mikeh]

hanp, on May 1 2009, 11:41 AM, said:

. On the second hand, if partner bids 3NT over 3C there is a good chance that partner has a stiff club. Now our slam chances have gone up tremendously and even 5C might be better than 3NT. Our heart king is also more likely to be useful

I know you mean a 'stiff spade', and I agree that 5♣ is almost always as safe as 3N on this second hand, but I find it very difficult to construct a hand, on which slam is good, on which he should bid 3N. As I mentioned, in my earlier post, this may come down to partnership as in what hand types warrant the 'slow-down' call of 3N opposite an unlimited but slam-positive (not necessarily slam trying) 3♣ call. By that, I mean that 3♣ is a call that should, in my view, announce that opener should not yet give up on slam when holding a good hand in context... so 3n shows holding a bad hand, for slam purposes, in context.