[hanp]

Scoring: IMP

1D - (Dbl) - ??

---

Thoughts?

[Mosene]

1 NT.

[hrothgar]

1♥ (Same as I would have bid without the double)

Not nearly strong enough for XX
1N isn't remotely appealing with two suits wide open

Raising Diamonds doesn't appeal to me with a sterile 3=4=3=3

[JLOL]

edit

[Apollo81]

1♥

[cherdanno]

JLOL, on Apr 28 2009, 02:21 PM, said:

edit

Agree with Justin.

[Echognome]

I think I'm going to pass here. I really don't want to emphasize hearts that are headed by the 10 and also given I have 4=3=3=3 shape. Of course I would have responded 1♥ had RHO passed, but given RHO's double, I don't see why that makes me want to play in hearts more.

[karlson]

I pass.

[jdonn]

1♥, second choice 1NT.

[mikeh]

1♥

Frankly don't understand the point of this. 1N is silly, positionally and on point count. Pass is not much better.. why can't this hand belong to us, in notrump, diamonds, clubs or even, yes, hearts?

[Lobowolf]

1♥, no close second choice for me.

[JLOL]

Pass

[bid_em_up]

mikeh, on Apr 28 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

1♥

Frankly don't understand the point of this. 1N is silly, positionally and on point count. Pass is not much better.. why can't this hand belong to us, in notrump, diamonds, clubs or even, yes, hearts?

Pass.

Frankly, I don't understand the point of this. 1H is silly. If the hand "belongs" to us, its going to require partner making another call. Why can't we find our spot (assuming we have one) after hearing what LHO has to say, when we are better placed, and what, if anything, partner has to say after LHO has bid?

If the hand belongs to us in diamonds or clubs or NT, it is going to require another bid from partner, so passing now is unlikely to hurt us, if this is the case.

If the hand belongs to them in spades (or clubs or NT), bidding one heart does absolutely nothing to prevent it, plus it has the detrimental factor of likely getting partner off to a terrible lead. Additionally, by bidding hearts now, we prevent them from ending in their 4-3 or 4-4 heart fit which was another one of our places to possibly go plus.

At least 1N has some "preemptive" merits, but they are not enough to convince me to bid it.

jmoo.

[Phil]

1♥.

I don't understand a pass and I certainly don't understand 1N. Why can't this be our hand for 2♥? Why can't this be our hand for 1N or 2♦ if pard wants to bid it? 1N distorts. Pass makes it hard to catch up.

[jdonn]

bid_em_up, on Apr 28 2009, 03:34 PM, said:

If the hand "belongs" to us, its going to require partner making another call. Why can't we find our spot (assuming we have one) after hearing what LHO has to say, when we are better placed, and what, if anything, partner has to say after LHO has bid?

This is the part I don't get. Why does partner have to be able to make another bid on his own for the hand to belong to us? And just what are you expecting to do on most auctions at a low level the come back to you where you are so glad you passed first?

[mikeh]

bid_em_up, on Apr 28 2009, 03:34 PM, said:

mikeh, on Apr 28 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

1♥

Frankly don't understand the point of this. 1N is silly, positionally and on point count. Pass is not much better.. why can't this hand belong to us, in notrump, diamonds, clubs or even, yes, hearts?

Pass.

Frankly, I don't understand the point of this. 1H is silly. If the hand "belongs" to us, its going to require partner making another call. Why can't we find our spot (assuming we have one) after hearing what LHO has to say, when we are better placed, and what, if anything, partner has to say after LHO has bid?

If the hand belongs to us in diamonds or clubs or NT, it is going to require another bid from partner, so passing now is unlikely to hurt us, if this is the case.

If the hand belongs to them in spades (or clubs or NT), bidding one heart does absolutely nothing to prevent it, plus it has the detrimental factor of likely getting partner off to a terrible lead. Additionally, by bidding hearts now, we prevent them from ending in their 4-3 or 4-4 heart fit which was another one of our places to possibly go plus.

At least 1N has some "preemptive" merits, but they are not enough to convince me to bid it.

jmoo.

Frankly, I do understand the intent to be funny, but I don't understand the rest of the post

I agree that for the hand to belong to us, partner needs to make another bid: what I don't understand is why you think he will/should do so, on a myriad of hands where the contract belongs to us, after we pass.

Say we have a 4-4 heart fit... give partner something radical and weird such as xx KQJx AQJxx xx... we pass and over 1♠ your partner does what? Hmmm.

Oh well, maybe you plan to reopen with 2♥?

As for 1N our way, after my pass.. surely he'll bid it over their 1♠, after our pass, if he holds QJx Kx AKJxx xxx? No? Too bad... maybe he was afraid you held no values for your pass. Or maybe he knows how to play bridge, and is aware that 1N shows 18-19 hcp?

Of course, maybe your plan is to reopen with 1N yourself

Of course, if your reaction to the start of this auction is that we have no right to compete, then by all means pass. At least you will avoid that dreaded bad lead... maybe.

[hanp]

Maybe this is moronic and a sign of an inexperienced bridge player but if I decided to pass and the auction continued as follows:

1D - Dbl - p - 1S
p - p - ??

then I would double.

[Lobowolf]

But when 1♠ gets raised to 2♠, or 2♠ is bid directly by LHO, you get that seller's remorse that partner doesn't know you have a few points and a few hearts.

[mikeh]

hanp, on Apr 28 2009, 04:38 PM, said:

Maybe this is moronic and a sign of an inexperienced bridge player but if I decided to pass and the auction continued as follows:

1D - Dbl - p - 1S
p - p - ??

then I would double.

Neither I nor you nor anyone else thinks that is the least bit moronic It seems like the obvious choice if you decide, originally, to pass. And while I still think that the original pass is wrong, to the point that I wouldn't do it, I do think it is the 2nd best call and as with virtually all 2nd best calls, it could easily work out better, on any given hand, than the call that I consider to be obvious.

Of course, you are assuming that the auction goes perfectly for you. Would you double 1N by LHO? Or 2♣ by LHO?

I confess, I had assumed that your title meant that you at least considered placing this question in the B/I forum precisely because the standard treatment is to respond to partner's 1minor bid, after a double, almost as if the double had not happend... and wouldn't we all bid 1♥ then?

[hanp]

Quote

Of course, you are assuming that the auction goes perfectly for you. Would you double 1N by LHO? Or 2♣ by LHO?

I wouldn't mind defending 1NT. Everybody is vulnerable, I am less worried than you are about them getting to play 1NT instead of us. Over 2C I would also pass, I am 4333 and all my points are in clubs, everybody is vulnerable. This doesn't seem to be a big problem. 2S coming back to us is fairly likely and is what I would least like to hear.

The reason I was talking about 1S coming back to us is this part of your post:

Quote

Say we have a 4-4 heart fit... give partner something radical and weird such as xx KQJx AQJxx xx... we pass and over 1♠ your partner does what? Hmmm.

Oh well, maybe you plan to reopen with 2♥?

As for 1N our way, after my pass.. surely he'll bid it over their 1♠, after our pass, if he holds QJx Kx AKJxx xxx? No? Too bad... maybe he was afraid you held no values for your pass. Or maybe he knows how to play bridge, and is aware that 1N shows 18-19 hcp?

Of course, maybe your plan is to reopen with 1N yourself tongue.gif

It seemed to me that these scenarios aren't as bad as you made them seem.