[jakob_r]

Scoring: IMP

(1D)-p-(p)-x
(2D)-p-(p)-x
(3D)-p-(p)-3NT
(p)-5C-a.p.

---

This auction was a farce. How should it have gone in your opinion?

[Apollo81]

If it starts (1♦) p (1♠) then South will have to choose between a super-heavy 1NT and an offshape double. I might choose the super heavy notrump if not playing some ridiculous convention that deprives me of such a bid.

[rbforster]

I'm not quite sure about the balancing NT ladder, but I think after 1N and X...1N, you're getting up to around 20 hcp. Unless this means I'm supposed to balance with 2N directly (which I think might be a little stronger than what I have), I think my plan would be to double and then bid 2N.

In the actual auction, I think I would bid 2N over 2♦ instead of doubling again (which sounds more like strong takeout rather than strong balanced). Partner has an easy raise to 3N. My auction:

(1♦)-P-(P)-X
(2♦)-P-(P)-2N
(P)-3N-AP

[rogerclee]

(1♦) - P - (1♠) - Dbl
(2♣) - Dbl - (P) - 3NT
AP

[ArtK78]

After East makes a disciplined pass of partner's 1♦ opening, the auction is easy for N/S:

(1♦) - P - (P) - 2NT
(P) - 3NT - All Pass

Many players do not realize that 2NT in balancing seat shows a 2NT opening. I suspect some who do realize this choose to use 2NT for something else, but I am not in that group.

However, if East bids 1♠, the auction gets more involved:

(1♦) - P - (1♠) - x
(2♣ or 2♦) - ?

North has a bit of a problem over a 2♣ rebid by West. A penalty double on xxxx is unappealing, but reasonable given that partner has implied clubs with his double of 1♠. And certainly no other call is appealing (pass?). If the double of 2♣ is not for penalties (why?) then it is still the right call, for lack of a better alternative. So, double is the best choice over 2♣, whatever it means. After that, N/S should have no trouble getting to 3NT.

If West rebids 2♦, North has little choice but to bid 3♣. Again, 3NT should be reached without any problem.

[mtvesuvius]

5♣ = Yuk.

As Art said, 2NT shows this exact hand, and that will solve all the problems here... Let me guess, Ian was north?

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

Many players do not realize that 2NT in balancing seat shows a 2NT opening

I think it's a little weaker, isn't it? Maybe something like 18+-20-?

If bal 1nt = 11-14, then you have 15-19 to cover with double if a bal 2nt shows stronger than that, which seems too wide for double then bid NT cheapest level. I think most play that bal 2nt is weaker than double, then jump in NT.

[mtvesuvius]

1NT = 11-14
X, 1NT = 15-17
X, 2NT = 18-19
2NT = 20-22
3NT = Gambling?
X, 3NT = 23-25 etc...

Maybe this needs to be changed?

[Fluffy]

Start with 1NT 8-11 and keep those ranges

Most people I know play 2NT for 16-18 or 17-19 or alike.

[Free]

pass ok
Dbl ok
pass ok
Dbl maybe better 2NT or 3NT, but Dbl is still acceptable
pass ok, maybe Dbl to show some values
3NT gamble, but what else can you do?
5♣ "I want a new partner, too bad I can't let him play this contract"

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

Maybe this needs to be changed?

Most books I have make the jump to 2nt be the step over doubling then bidding nt at the cheapest level. Range listed usually as 18-20 or 19-20. I think if you try to slide in another range in between, it gets too awkward, as sometimes somebody sticks in a 2 level bid and to jump you'd have to bid 3nt. Better to do that with the bigger hand.

I think if you are balancing on bal 8 counts that leaves you too much ground to cover and you too often end up in 2nt down 1 unnecessarily when you want to show stronger hand, or when partner is strongish and jumps in your doubleton in response to your double.

[Neobas]

1♦ - p - p - X
2♣ - p - p - X
p - 3♣ - p 3NT
ap

EDIT:

Quote

Many players do not realize that 2NT in balancing seat shows a 2NT opening.  I suspect some who do realize this choose to use 2NT for something else, but I am not in that group.

To me that would be UN2N, how many times a lifetime do you get 20-22 HCP and your LHO opens 1x...?

[andy_h]

Neobas, on Apr 25 2009, 09:43 PM, said:

1♦ - p - p - X
2♣ - p - p - X
p - 3♣ - p 3NT
ap

EDIT:

Quote

Many players do not realize that 2NT in balancing seat shows a 2NT opening.  I suspect some who do realize this choose to use 2NT for something else, but I am not in that group.

To me that would be UN2N, how many times a lifetime do you get 20-22 HCP and your LHO opens 1x...?

Quite a few times actually believe it or not. One of the problems of not having a direct 2NT in the balancing seat is that you will have a tough time on the next round of the bidding if LHO, the opener introduces a 2nd suit which may be raised by RHO, or maybe LHO will raise his opening bid to the 3level. If I have a 2 suiter I will start with a simple overcall which might hit a fit with partner or I can still be able to introduce the 2nd suit.
It's true that you can somehow use this same argument for an overcall of 2NT in the direct seat but that's actually quite not the case. When we are in the balancing seat we have the additional information that RHO doesn't have enough to respond and that sort of increases the chance that we will have a strong hand after an auction of (1x)-p-(p). One problem you will also face when playing UN2NT in the balancing seat is that partner may have some troubles showing inv(+) type hands and both partners may be doing some guessing, whereas I would be better placed by starting with 2y and can possibly stop at the 3level while getting both suits in, too.

For me in the direct seat:
(vs. minor)
       1NT = 11-14
X-->1NT = 15-17(18)
       2NT = 18-19(20)
X-->2NT = 20-21

My auction would have gone the same as rogerclee's.

If I am N/S and E/W's style is to not respond with E's hand, then my auction would be ArtK78's.

Oh, welcome to the forums Bas =)

[mtvesuvius]

Neobas, on Apr 25 2009, 05:43 AM, said:

1♦ - p - p - X
2♣ - p - p - X
p - 3♣ - p 3NT
ap

EDIT:

Quote

Many players do not realize that 2NT in balancing seat shows a 2NT opening.  I suspect some who do realize this choose to use 2NT for something else, but I am not in that group.

To me that would be UN2N, how many times a lifetime do you get 20-22 HCP and your LHO opens 1x...?

Twice in the past 2 weeks

[skjaeran]

As mentioned by others, standard is that a balancing 2NT is strong. I play it as 19-21.

[cherdanno]

Neobas, on Apr 25 2009, 05:43 AM, said:

Quote

Many players do not realize that 2NT in balancing seat shows a 2NT opening.  I suspect some who do realize this choose to use 2NT for something else, but I am not in that group.

To me that would be UN2N, how many times a lifetime do you get 20-22 HCP and your LHO opens 1x...?

How often do you have an unusual 2N and both partner and RHO pass LHO's opening bid?

[Codo]

I think this is a real accedemic descission whether or not unusual or natural is better. Both cases are seldom.

The best approach is, to use it in a way that it closes a gap in your reopening structure, so when you have problems to show a strong hand with x to y NT, then 2 NT can be used for that.

The advantage of unusual is of course that you seldom have problems to bid a strong balanced hand (here with X and 2 NT), but you have a problem to show strong two suiters without this gadget.

[whereagles]

I'm ok with everything except the 5♣ bid, which seems like a clear misinterpretation of pard's hand.

[Phil]

2N is 19-20. If East passes, NS have a simple auction to 3N.

I think East has a 100% 1♠ call at these colors. Now the auction becomes very murky for NS:

1♦ - pass - 1♠ - double
2♦ -

Very tough. Double is penalty for me, not responsive. I might scrape up a 2♥ call, which would lead to 4♥. If North passed, I can see:

.........pass - pass - double
pass - 3♦ - pass - 3N

[cherdanno]

mtvesuvius, on Apr 24 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

1NT = 11-14
X, 1NT = 15-17
X, 2NT = 18-19
2NT = 20-22
3NT = Gambling?
X, 3NT = 23-25 etc...

Maybe this needs to be changed?

Why is X-2NT weaker than 2NT?
Anway, I don't think there is quite a standard agreement on the ranges, s.th. to discuss with partners.