[CSGibson]

I was thinking about lebensohl after a weak 2 in diamonds, and I was wondering specifically about this auction:

(2♦)-X-(P)-2N*,
(P)-3♣*-(P)-3♦.

Intuitively, I think the auction should be 9-11 HCP with two four card majors, asking doubler to pick the level and suit, but I honestly haven't seen the auction in any textbooks, and, to my knowledge, have never seen the auction at the table, either.

[rogerclee]

I think should should be a general force (you should at least have one way to show a general game force).

Maybe this is offtopic, I'd recommend lebensohl off over 2♦.

[CSGibson]

rogerclee, on Apr 19 2009, 03:00 PM, said:

I think should should be a general force (you should at least have one way to show a general game force).

Maybe this is offtopic, I'd recommend lebensohl off over 2♦.

And how would the general force be different than an immediate 3♦ call? Note: I do not disagree with 3♦ being forcing, as it would be silly to play it non-forcing. I am just wondering what the difference should be for an immediate 3♦ vs a 3♦ through lebensohl.

I thought that the hand I gave, with two four card majors and 9-11 HCP, would be a good hand to assign to that sequence, since a takeout double over 2♦ will often have 4-3 in the majors, or sometimes 5-3, and this way you can be sure of playing in the 4-4 fit instead of the 4-3, and at the appropriate level, but I want to make sure there isn't something else even more useful.

As for lebensohl off, that does make some sense, though I find it very useful to differentiate between invitational hands with 4 card and 5 card majors (same reason, often 4-3 in majors), which lebensohl allows me to do.

[nick_s]

I haven't discussed this with pard, but I would assume that the two sequences were the same as for Lebensohl over intervention over 1NT.

i.e. Staymanesque with a diamond stop vs Staymanesque without a diamond stop.

Nick

[helene_t]

CSGibson, on Apr 20 2009, 06:33 AM, said:

And how would the general force be different than an immediate 3♦ call?

Immediate 3♦ denies a diamond stopper so partner bid 4♣ with 3325 and small diamonds. 3♦ via 2NT shows a diamond stopper.

I think.