[shevek]

Checkback/Crowhurst over 1NT rebid, not 2-way

Bit of a rerun but what to these sequences mean:

1♦ - 1♥
1N - 2♣
2x - 3♦ ?

Forcing or invitational?

1♦ - 1♥
1N - 2♣
2x - 3♣ ?

Forcing, invitational or sign-off?
Can you in fact sign off in 3♣ - directly or otherwise - with a weak 4-6?

1♥ - 1♠
1N - 3♦

5-5 forcing? Or do they have to go through 2♣ and this is invitational?

[Flame]

deleted sry

[ArtK78]

I know it is a bit of a cop-out, but it is a matter of partnership agreement.

To me, if you go through the checkback first it is a stronger auction. So:

1♦ - 1♥
1NT - 2♣
2x - 3♦

is forcing, while

1♦ - 1♥
1NT - 3♦

is invitational. And

1♦ - 1♥
1NT - 2♣
2x - 3♣

is forcing while

1♦ - 1♥
1NT - 3♣

is the weak 4-6 type hand.

And

1♥ - 1♠
1NT - 3♦

is natural and invitational, as you could have bid 2♣ and then 3♦ to force.

I try to be consistent. Any time you could use the checkback to arrive at the same place, using the checkback is forcing and not using the checkback is not forcing (weak or invitational, depending on the suits involved).

[peachy]

Matter of partnership agreements. I think it is best to agree on principles, then apply them to individual auctions. There are different styles, here is my preference:

Jump in minor after 1H-1S-1NT, and jump in other minor after 1m-1M-1NT, are weak hands with four-card major and six-card minor. To Play.

Strong hands go through NMF. After NMF: raise of opener's suit, rebid of the "new minor" suit (natural now), or rebid of responder's major are forcing.

Invitational hands jump directly if 5-5; or bid 2NT. Sometimes this leads to the loss of diamond suit such as 1C-1S-1NT-2NT where responder can have 4-card spades and 5-card diamonds in Walsh style 2/1. Nearly never a problem not to be able to bid 5-card diamonds naturally with an invitational hand.

[spotlight7]

Hi:

Playing the XYZ convention(two way checkback) makes life a lot easier. If partner bids 2C, it starts an invitational auction. If partner bids 2D*, it is game forcing.

Regards,
Robert

[ArtK78]

spotlight7, on Apr 7 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

Hi:

Playing the XYZ convention(two way checkback) makes life a lot easier. If partner bids 2C, it starts an invitational auction. If partner bids 2D*, it is game forcing.

Regards,
Robert

Maybe so, but the OP said no 2-way checkback.

[goobers]

When I used to play NMF, I played the first auction as forcing. It just has to be opposite of what 1D - 1S - 1N - 3D is.

I played auction 3 as 5-5 GF.

Don't know about 2.

Edit: I see ArtK already made the point that whatever the direct bid shows, going through NMF shows the other one.

[Trinidad]

I play x-y-NT, so I have other problems.

The short answer is that it is whatever you agree on. But if you don't have an agreement, my partner and I have general rules that solve these types of problems. Two that help out here are:

1) The slow route is stronger than the fast route. (This applies to these kind of auctions, fourth suit forcing auctions, cuebid auctions, TO double auctions, etc.)

2) When we are below game and need to have a forcing bid, a sign off bid and an invitational bid, but don't have enough room to fit in all the meanings, then we drop the invitational meaning first, then the sign off meaning and keep the forcing meaning.

Rule 1 means that going through 2♣ is stronger (when we don't have a specific agreement how we show the hands).

Rule 2 means that 3♣ is:

- Forcing after:
1x-1y;
1NT-2♣;
2x-

- Sign off after:
1x-1y;
1NT-

I am not going to state that these rules are the best for every situation (which is why we have rule '0': "specific agreements overrule all other rules") but these small general agreements have kept my partner and me out of a lot of trouble.

Rik

[fromageGB]

I'm a bit of an oddball here. In the absence of partnership agreement my thinking would be along the lines of -
* Checkback is used sometimes to find support, but always to see if there are enough values for game. It shows at least an invitational hand.
* The 2 level reply says game is not there, so 3♦ means as we are not going to be in game, I prefer 3♦. To play.

Conversely 3♦ over 1NT is forcing.

[barmar]

goobers, on Apr 7 2009, 04:24 PM, said:

Edit: I see ArtK already made the point that whatever the direct bid shows, going through NMF shows the other one.

The problem is that there are three possibilities: weak, invitational, and forcing. It's clear that going through NMF shows a different one than NOT going through it, but you need to know for each sequence which case is omitted.