[Apollo81]

All Vul, IMPs

♠Axxx
♥Kx
♦xxx
♣QJxx

1♦-1♠
3♣-?

[jdonn]

4♣, bidding 4♥ over 4♦, or 4♠ over 4♥, or 5♥ over 4♠. I think our hand is VERY good here.

[Phil]

Strongly disagree with 4♣, since 3♣ is so suspect.

I much prefer 3♦. Let pard bid their hand out.

[jdonn]

Phil, on Apr 2 2009, 01:10 PM, said:

Strongly disagree with 4♣, since 3♣ is so suspect.

I much prefer 3♦. Let pard bid their hand out.

Do you have a reason that is more specific instead of a general statement? In other words, why won't 4♣ work if 3♣ can be suspect? If partner bids 4♦ and I bid 4♥ then IMO I am cuebidding for diamonds.

[cherdanno]

jdonn, on Apr 2 2009, 01:07 PM, said:

4♣, bidding 4♥ over 4♦, or 4♠ over 4♥, or 5♥ over 4♠. I think our hand is VERY good here.

I don't get 5♥, trying for a grand by suggesting first round control opposite partner's likely singleton?
I would bid 3♦ and 4♣ next if possible, this should roughly suggest this shape in the minors. I am also not as excited about slam as Josh, xxx in diamonds is very bad and KQx x AKJxx AKxx a perfectly nice jump shift. I would make one slam move after bidding 3D-4C and then let it be.

[JLOL]

This is a non problem 4C to me.

[MarkDean]

I would bid 3♦ - it takes up a lot less room.

[RichMor]

Don't rebid 4♣ if you are playing with one K. Rexford. He might be void

[hanp]

If K. Rexford is void in clubs he probably won't pass 4C. I don't see the problem. If partner has an honest jumpshift then we have a monster for clubs. If partner was bidding a fragment with a strong diamond suit.... then we still have a monster!

[gnasher]

After 3♣-4♣, I think 4♦ is a cue bid for clubs. With a strong one-suiter that made up a jump shift, I think opener should bid 5♦. That would work out OK - I'd raise that to six, since a grand slam is more or less impossible.

[inquiry]

4♣ - absolute forcing

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Apr 2 2009, 04:27 PM, said:

After 3♣-4♣, I think 4♦ is a cue bid for clubs. With a strong one-suiter that made up a jump shift, I think opener should bid 5♦. That would work out OK - I'd raise that to six, since a grand slam is more or less impossible.

Very very strongly disagree. You just can't afford to waste that level, it's too important. You can easily get by without the cuebid since the jump-shifter is assumed to have at least a decent suit and almost always has a control in it.

[JLOL]

jdonn, on Apr 2 2009, 04:35 PM, said:

gnasher, on Apr 2 2009, 04:27 PM, said:

After 3♣-4♣, I think 4♦ is a cue bid for clubs.  With a strong one-suiter that made up a jump shift, I think opener should bid 5♦.  That would work out OK - I'd raise that to six, since a grand slam is more or less impossible.

Very very strongly disagree. You just can't afford to waste that level, it's too important. You can easily get by without the cuebid since the jump-shifter is assumed to have at least a decent suit and almost always has a control in it.

agree

[kenrexford]

1. 4♣, easy
2. 3♣ could be bid with (in theory) a void in clubs
3. After 4♣, 4♦ by Opener overrides and shows the 3♣ bid was manufactured.
4. I think that 4♠ by Opener after 4♣ should override and show spade support, but that might be rather non-standard.

[MarkDean]

kenrexford, on Apr 2 2009, 02:55 PM, said:

1. 4♣, easy
2. 3♣ could be bid with (in theory) a void in clubs
3. After 4♣, 4♦ by Opener overrides and shows the 3♣ bid was manufactured.
4. I think that 4♠ by Opener after 4♣ should override and show spade support, but that might be rather non-standard.

So if opener actually has his bid, what does he do?

[dburn]

MarkDean, on Apr 2 2009, 06:12 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Apr 2 2009, 02:55 PM, said:

1. 4♣, easy
2. 3♣ could be bid with (in theory) a void in clubs
3. After 4♣, 4♦ by Opener overrides and shows the 3♣ bid was manufactured.
4. I think that 4♠ by Opener after 4♣ should override and show spade support, but that might be rather non-standard.

So if opener actually has his bid, what does he do?

Bids 4♥ quickly with a heart control and 4♥ slowly without one.

[the hog]

Phil, on Apr 3 2009, 01:10 AM, said:

Strongly disagree with 4♣, since 3♣ is so suspect.

I much prefer 3♦. Let pard bid their hand out.

I don't understand this comment at all. Why is the 3C bid suspect? Let partner in on the fit here - 4C is a standout bid.

[Echognome]

Obviously people are answering based on their own styles. I think many of the posters are catering for a manufactured bid, but in different ways.

Phil caters for it by making the cheapest rebid and trying to get partner to clarify on the next round, before showing his intentions. To Phil, if partner bids 4♣ that shows a serious club suit and a sets the strain even opposite a manufactured bid. This obviously has the advantage of keeping the bidding lower, but has the downside that responder may have a difficult bid on the next round showing his good (but not serious) club support on the next round. It also make the 3♦ bid less clear.

Many others also cater for the possibility, but by having opener's 4♦ bid show that the bid was manufactured. This allows for responder to show genuine club support, but it's not clear (at least to me) what responder does with even better clubs. After opener bids 4♦, how does responder show good clubs with various levels of strength? As Josh said, 4♥ and 4♠ are cues for diamonds. So what are responder's choices with good clubs? 5♣ or 6♣?

Yet others don't even cater for the possibility of a manufactured bid (those hands are obviously handled some other way), so for this hand, it becomes an easy 4♣ call.

[kfay]

MarkDean, on Apr 2 2009, 06:12 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Apr 2 2009, 02:55 PM, said:

1. 4♣, easy
2. 3♣ could be bid with (in theory) a void in clubs
3. After 4♣, 4♦ by Opener overrides and shows the 3♣ bid was manufactured.
4. I think that 4♠ by Opener after 4♣ should override and show spade support, but that might be rather non-standard.

So if opener actually has his bid, what does he do?