[Fluffy]

Scoring: IMP

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The bidding (it didn´t matter, but it was lovelly )

S. N
1♥-1NT (F1R)
2♣-2♠ (shape raise in ♣)
3♦-5♣

The lead is ♦Q

[bridgeboy]

Nice Problem here.. My line: (Probably nowhere near the best)

Ace D Takes
K H
Ace H
H ruff. *
D Ruff
H ruff
D ruff
ace club
last heart gd discard D.

Only scope for problem is when H gets over ruffed (either in front or behind) with a singleton honor and you lose 2 more trumps at the end

Not sure if it is better to draw ace club at the beginning... You might lose out when H 4-2 gets overruff and defender draw another trump. You might have to fall back on S finesse then.

I rather hope that the man with short H is NOT with a singleton honor in trumps

[Flame]

A♦
J♠
case A: east got the K and covers (doesnt matter if he doesnt cover)
take A of spade
heart to the K
ruff diamond
small spade ruff in hard (you are not playing the Q first)
ruff another diamond at the table.
play A of club
play Q of spade and drop the diamond and you have 11 tricks no matter what.

case B: west taking the K of spade
you need a 2 2 club break, if west continue anything but D, you can play trump before you ruff the diamond and before you draw the spades which is good, if he continue diamond, you have to ruff it now you must play the spades before you can draw all trump (you can take out only the A of club) which mean you will lose if spades are 2-5.

[cnszsun]

I will take Flame's line.
If ♠K is onside, you can win 11 tricks by cross-ruff even if trumps are 1-3.
If ♠K is offside, you can still prevail when trumps are 2-2.
The problem of trying to setup ♥s is you may be defeated when trumps are 2-2.
-----------------
It seems i'm wrong here, this line always works if trumps are 2-2, so it's better.

[Flame]

actually bridgeboy's line which i must confest looked redicules to me at the begining is better then mine, only you shouldnt ruff a diamond in hand, you can get in with club to the A or with spade to the A.

[whereagles]

At table I would probably ruff a heart and see what happens.

[mishovnbg]

Ruffing 3th ♥ - and can be too late to make. Opp all time silent with hcp most of time means bad breaks in our first bidded (♥) suit. Even 2nd ♥ can be bad...
Line with direct finesse of ♠ or ♣ 2-2 (70%) is more than enough imho.
Misho

[whereagles]

Actually, if opponents are silent but have hcps, chances are they have balanced hands. Not a bad omen for ruffing a heart.

[Fluffy]

I am with bridgeboy, I at start thoug this hand was for cashing ♣A, a more closely analysis makes me think that somene having 2♥+1♣ is so unlikelly, less than ♥4-2 and ♣1-3 with ♠K offside I think. But someone may calculate

Also the first line has more chances when ♥ are 5-1, you will then switch to ruff twice and ♠ finese.


For those who expect the real hand I am sorry, ♥ were 3-3 ♠K onside and covered ♠J, everything you tried would work (even playing ♣A and ♣)

[mishovnbg]

Fluffy, on May 14 2004, 01:58 PM, said:

I am with bridgeboy, I at start thoug this hand was for cashing ♣A, a more closely analysis makes me think that somene having 2♥+1♣ is so unlikelly, less than ♥4-2 and ♣1-3 with ♠K offside I think. But someone may calculate

Also the first line has more chances when ♥ are 5-1, you will then switch to ruff twice and ♠ finese.


For those who expect the real hand I am sorry, ♥ were 3-3 ♠K onside and covered ♠J, everything you tried would work (even playing ♣A and ♣)

2♥+2♣ and K♠ off also down - just wrong way in easy game...

[mishovnbg]

whereagles, on May 14 2004, 11:13 AM, said:

Actually, if opponents are silent but have hcps, chances are they have balanced hands. Not a bad omen for ruffing a heart.

Depend of level of opp... It is almost sure good player, esp W second round, will dbl for take out with length in unbid suits.
Misho

[Fluffy]

when ♣ are 2-2 and ♥ 4-2 or 3-3 I think you win either cahing ♣A or not cahsing.

[mishovnbg]

Fluffy, on May 15 2004, 10:15 AM, said:

when ♣ are 2-2 and ♥ 4-2 or 3-3 I think you win either cahing ♣A or not cahsing.

yes, my mistake, sorry, I read cnszsun post and didn't analyse myself 2-2 trumps. Still my opinion, as well as good players I asked is line with finesse of ♠ is better, because is simple and with enough high percentage, while ruffing ♥ is hard to calculate at table.
Misho

[Flame]

misho i think just like me the line with the heart ruffing looks wierd to you, its just not something you should usually and therefore for us expirence players it looks wierd but i think here its the best, it win everytime hearts are 4-2 or 3-3 and might servive even if not.

[whereagles]

What's so wierd about setting up dummy's long suit? Looks normal to me.

[Flame]

whereagles, on May 15 2004, 05:00 PM, said:

What's so wierd about setting up dummy's long suit? Looks normal to me.

well it wasnt normal to me.
Can you explain to me, how do you play this like i was your student, i mean what is your plan, do you count losers or winers ?

[Trpltrbl]

If ♣ 2-2 it is fairly simple hand.
I assume it is not so, with 4-0 I can't make, so they have to be 3-1.
Setting up the ♥ is I think your best bet.
You can combine your chances a little too.
First I will cash my Ace of ♣ and then ruff the ♥ high.
The hand with the short ♥ is more likely to have to long ♣, so he is ruffing from his winners anyhow.

Mike

[whereagles]

Flame, on May 15 2004, 11:38 PM, said:

Can you explain to me, how do you play this like i was your student, i mean what is your plan, do you count losers or winers ?

If I were teaching someone to play this hand I would argue as follows.

"You have two ways to play this hand: either ruff diamonds in the short hand or setup dummy's hearts. Since ruffing all your diamonds is risks going down if trumps break 3-1 and ruffing only two diamonds makes you depend on a 2-2 trump break or the spade finesse, you should try the hearts. If hearts are no worse than 4-2, you take 5 clubs, 1 diamond + 1 ruff, 3 hearts, 1 spade = 11 tricks. Maybe 12 if trumps break 2-2."

[Flame]

whereagles, on May 15 2004, 06:54 PM, said:

you take 5 clubs, 1 diamond + 1 ruff, 3 hearts, 1 spade = 11 tricks. Maybe 12 if trumps break 2-2."

You cant ruff diamonds in your hand because this will make you lose controll over the hand.
Also you cant take out the A of club first like said before you.
I guess over the many years i play i develope a sense for most hands play, and this one is not include there and thats what made it one hard for me.

[whereagles]

Hum.. ruffing a heart was the first thing that come to my mind.