BBO Discussion Forums: 3NT in 4th position - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

3NT in 4th position assign the blame

#1 User is offline   benlessard 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,465
  • Joined: 2006-January-07
  • Location:Montreal Canada
  • Interests:All games. i really mean all of them.

Posted 2009-March-31, 22:01

Scoring: MP


(P)-----P------(P)-------3NT all pass with the A of club lead for -400.

South said that 3NT should show a pretty good hand since 3D show a pretty good preempt anyway. North said that having a void is too terrible to pass 3Nt.

Would you open 3Nt with Kx in clubs and the stiff heart ?
Do you allow responder to bid 3Nt over a 3m 4th preemtpt ?
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
0

#2 User is offline   JLOL 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,033
  • Joined: 2008-December-05

Posted 2009-March-31, 22:03

I think 3N is terrible with no stoppers, that is an LOL.

I opened 3N today with Kx xx AKQJxxx AJ which is what a 3N opener should look like. Gambling on one suit is ok, but 3 is ridiculous.

Of course south has a pass. 3N doesn't show no side entry lol.
New website: http://www.justinlall.com
0

#3 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

  • Limit bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,482
  • Joined: 2004-November-02
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:England
  • Interests:Bridge, classical music, skiing... but I spend more time earning a living than doing any of those

Posted 2009-April-01, 02:09

benlessard, on Apr 1 2009, 04:01 AM, said:

Do you allow responder to bid 3Nt over a 3m 4th preemtpt ?

Yes, of course.
I've even had that auction more than once.
0

#4 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2009-April-01, 02:13

With the South hand I'd be a bit worried about missing slam. Could North have Ax Qx AKQJxxx Kx? If so, maybe South should bid 4♥ as a sort of trial bid.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#5 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2009-April-01, 02:35

I see people play a 4th seat 3NT as showing the world.

If you play that, then North gets the blame. If you play the, IMO more sensible requirement, "at most 1 side stop for a 4th seat 3NT", then SOUTH gets it.
0

#6 User is offline   OleBerg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,950
  • Joined: 2008-April-05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Copenhagen
  • Interests:Model-Railways.

Posted 2009-April-01, 02:39

benlessard, on Apr 1 2009, 06:01 AM, said:

Do you allow responder to bid 3Nt over a 3m 4th preemtpt ?

Only with an exceptional fitting hand. Probably non-standard, but if I have a hand where 3NT is a reasonable possibilety facing a passed hand, I start with one of a suit.

I like to reserve the 3m bid for somethiing like:

♠ Ax
♥ x
♦ KQ10
♣ QJ108xxx

On the OP hand.

Pass is 100% obvious on the South Hand. I wouldn't open 3NT on the North hand, but I dont feel strongly about it.
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
0

#7 User is offline   benlessard 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,465
  • Joined: 2006-January-07
  • Location:Montreal Canada
  • Interests:All games. i really mean all of them.

Posted 2009-April-03, 00:03

Despite all the post partner isnt convinced that 3Nt in 4th seat is showing a very good hand (we play Gambling 3Nt on the CC).

My argument is that even 3m show a pretty good hand allowing responder to bid 3Nt. So 3Nt is a tactical i hope to make bid.

Do you know any books where this is explained.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
0

#8 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2009-April-03, 00:27

In 4th seat 3m shows a good hand like responder needs good controls and stoppers to make 3nt. 3nt is a good hand like responder needs very little to make. This is obvious and well known to even fair players.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#9 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2009-April-03, 02:57

benlessard, on Apr 3 2009, 07:03 AM, said:

Despite all the post partner isnt convinced that 3Nt in 4th seat is showing a very good hand (we play Gambling 3Nt on the CC).

My argument is that even 3m show a pretty good hand allowing responder to bid 3Nt. So 3Nt is a tactical i hope to make bid.

Do you know any books where this is explained.

What nationality is your partner? It seems likely from the comments in this thread that we don't all play this the same way.

The Encyclopedia of Bridge says that the bid should have "little or no outside strength" "except in fourth position".

Rather to my surprise, Better Bidding With Bergen, vol 1, p90 supports your partner's view: "Although some would say that in third or fourth position it shows a better hand and commands responder to pass, there is no necessity for this." Bergen gives J62 10 96 AKQT1064 as an example of a fourth-seat 3NT opener.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0
Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users