[MarkDean]

Here is an auction/hand from the loser's swiss.

Playing precision with 2/1 GF.

You deal, white/red, the opponents are silent, and the auction starts:

1♠ - 2♦
2♥ - 3♦
3♥ - 4♣

What did 4♣ mean?

What is your call with
AKJxxx
K9xxx
void
JT?

[jdonn]

4♣ is artificial showing a strong heart raise. You need a way to show further interest without committing past 4♥.

[whereagles]

Dunno. Heart support and something in clubs, I guess.

[MarkDean]

Feel free to say what you think it should mean, but I also would like to know what you think it means when undiscussed opposite a solid player.

[whereagles]

MarkDean, on Mar 27 2009, 10:04 PM, said:

Feel free to say what you think it should mean, but I also would like to know what you think it means when undiscussed opposite a solid player.

If by this you mean pard has some 6-5 in the minors and hasn't been paying attention to the auction, then it's his problem

[jdonn]

MarkDean, on Mar 27 2009, 05:04 PM, said:

Feel free to say what you think it should mean, but I also would like to know what you think it means when undiscussed opposite a solid player.

If partner doesn't know it's a heart raise then he is not a solid player. And if he thinks it is gerber he doesn't have a solid skull holding his brain in place.

[EricK]

I would guess that 4 ♣ is a cue bid for ♥.

In response I bid 4♥ as the hand looks like a misfit to me, and partner doesn't have enough trumps to make slam on a cross-ruff a good possibility.

[Echognome]

Seems very similar to an auction I had in Las Vegas, where I was 6=5=2=0 and the 4♣ call was doubled and I redoubled to show my first round control. Partner didn't enjoy playing in the 4-0.

After that discussion, he was convinced when the next 10 expert players we asked all said it was an artificial raise in hearts. There was some debate as to whether it showed a control or was agnostic to one. (I believe the latter.)

As for this hand, I really don't like my diamond void, so I'm going to bid 4♥ and see if partner can make another move.

[rogerclee]

Agree with the others that this is a strong heart raise and says nothing about clubs.

I think partner rates to have spade shortness, and obviously our hand is not so good opposite that, so committing to slam is wrong. Our hand certainly has extras, though, so I would bid 4♦ to give partner a chance.

[Trinidad]

At first, your thinking should be: "This is a ♣cue in support of hearts."

After that, you will realize that partner doesn't have any other cue available below 4♥: 3♠, 3NT, 4♦ and 4♥ are all needed as natural bids. This means that 4♣ cannot be linked to the club suit anymore. (What would you bid with a good hand, heart support, but no club control?). Therefore, it is a general bid showing a hand with heart support that is too strong to bid 4♥.

Rik

[MarkDean]

Alright, I also thought it was a strong heart raise, even without discussion. That interpretation was not a great success.

[jdonn]

I forgot to say what I would do, which is bid 4♥. The void in diamonds, partner's likely spade shortage, and the awful hearts in what is definitely a 5-3 fit all point to signing off, not to mention the minimal high card strength.

[Lobowolf]

jdonn, on Mar 27 2009, 05:10 PM, said:

And if he thinks it is gerber he doesn't have a solid skull holding his brain in place.

Fully consistent with my First Law: "The better the player, the less likely that any given 4♣ bid is Gerber."

[hanp]

Undiscussed I would take it as Gerber, probably better to play it as a heart raise.

[petergreat]

Impossible. Has to be control-showing.

Gerber is only used after Jacoby transfers, natural NT openings and NT raises, and of course 2♣ - 2♦ - NT.

[JLOL]

Jdonn you overrate solid players. The average solid player would not know what 4C is here imo. Obviously this is more of a guessing game and you have more info than us on how old your partner is, where he's from, how convention oriented he is, etc. In general in these spots just try to safety play the auction to cater to all possibilities.

[jdonn]

JLOL, on Mar 27 2009, 10:32 PM, said:

Jdonn you overrate solid players. The average solid player would not know what 4C is here imo. Obviously this is more of a guessing game and you have more info than us on how old your partner is, where he's from, how convention oriented he is, etc. In general in these spots just try to safety play the auction to cater to all possibilities.

I don't think we disagree about what people know, just about what solid means.

[the hog]

Cue bid in support of H. I am bidding 4H as my D holding - n partner's suit - does not give me an adrenaline rush.

[mike777]

MarkDean, on Mar 27 2009, 05:02 PM, said:

Here is an auction/hand from the loser's swiss.

Playing precision with 2/1 GF. 

You deal, white/red, the opponents are silent, and the auction starts:

1♠ - 2♦
2♥ - 3♦
3♥ - 4♣

What did 4♣ mean?

What is your call with
AKJxxx
K9xxx
void
JT?

without reading posters:
4c=cue...agree hearts...now I rebid

4h.

I will now read posters to see how wrong this is.

[neilkaz]

Agreed with this being a ♥ raise and I also bid 4♥ as I don't like my ♦ void and have weak trumps.