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Cagey bidder

#1 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-March-24, 17:58

You passed over 1N in the hopes of defending 1N (or 3), but naturally the bidding got away from you and your clubs were silent.

Scoring: IMP


1N - 2
3 - 4

You lead the A, and get the 7 from partner (obviously a stiff).

Do we make pard ruff a club for a heart through or just try to take two clubs, a heart and something else?
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#2 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-March-24, 18:09

If partner has the diamond Ace, you need a heart return immediately.

If partner has the heart Ace, you can switch to hearts at trick three after winning two clubs.

If partner has the diamond K-Q, you might be able to survive with a switch to diamonds after winning two clubs.

If you force a ruff, you might be killing a trump trick for partner. If that does not happen, partner will be well placed to act.

Ugh!

I'll play the club Queen. I hope that suggests that partner rough this if he knows best.
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#3 User is offline   H_KARLUK 

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Posted 2009-March-24, 21:03

I play AKQ clubs.
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#4 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-March-25, 01:43

We see 18 HCPS, declarer has at most 17, so partner rates to have 5-7 HCPs.
We seem to have 3 tricks in our hand when declarer has no soild diamonds where the hearts can be placed,
So I go with the play of the clubs and let declarer ruff the third.
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#5 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-March-25, 04:00

There's a risk of the hearts being discarded only if declarer is 4=3=4=2 with precisely KQJ8. After three rounds of clubs he can't get to dummy twice to lead a diamonds up, so without the eight he has only one discard from dummy.

Even if this is the layout, after winning DA partner will play a heart. If declarer has the jack he will probably finesse rather than playing for 10 to drop.

Against that, forcing partner to ruff a club will be expensive if you waste a trump trick, and also if declarer's hand is something like KQxx A10xx AQx Jx - after your extravagant attempt to get partner in, the whole world will know you have K.

Ken's suggestion of Q might work, except that looking at A partner might ruff and switch to a diamond. How does he know which king I have?

All in all, I think it's best to do the obvious: cash a second club and see if partner encourages hearts. If he doesn't, play a third club and hope declarer goes down.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#6 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-March-25, 09:04

On the surface, leading a low club looks right with: KQJx, AJx, KQJx, xx. We want pard to ruff the club for a heart through. But declarer is going to have some problems with 3 rounds of clubs anyway. Declarer ruffs, gets to the board with a spade, leads a diamond up but is then hand locked. Perhaps if declarer does have specifically KQJ8 the best line is to check and see if the diamond 10 is coming down which it will.

Forcing partner to ruff (with a suit preference 9) will get the easy cash out however when partner does have the A, although we should get a heart signal on the 2nd high club too.

It's unlikely we are blowing a trump trick forcing partner to ruff. It only seems to matter when partner has QJx, since with Qxx, declarer will surely hook.

The only real hand I can construct where it's right to get pard in right away is: KQxxx, Ax, KQJx, xx, but this is a very weird 1N opening.
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#7 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2009-March-25, 12:12

Not a lot to add: we can place partner with 4-5 hcp on the auction. He may hold the diamond Ace or the KQ or the heart Ace, or neither... in which case he may hold a natural trump trick.

It seems to me logical to ask partner what he has. We do this by cashing the club K... not the Q, since he may decide to be brilliant and ruff this. We cannot be expecting him to ruff the King. So he will signal.

If he likes hearts, we have an easy switch. If he likes diamonds, it is a bit more complex since, as gnasher observed, there are layouts on which the hearts go away, and if we switch to the diamond suit ourselves, declarer won't need KQJ8...KQJx is enough.

If he likes neither, then we assume he has a trump trick and that declarer can't dispose of the hearts.

I think the best way to combine chances is to cash the club K, intending to switch to hearts if partner shows that A, or to continue the club Queen both when he shows diamonds and when he is neutral (discouraging hearts would be neutral in diamonds).
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#8 User is offline   keylime 

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  Posted 2009-March-25, 12:27

I like the forcing play too of A-K-Q for the simple reason of not allowing partner to go wrong as often as the A-Q play would, where he maybe ruffing under the guises of falling the KC.
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