[rogerclee]

Scoring: IMP

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1♣ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♦
2♥ - 4♦
4NT - 5♦
6♥ - P

[FrancesHinden]

I'm confused by the methods. If you want to assign blame, you have to explain what you are playing.

I would bid 1C - 1S; 2C - 2H; 4D - 4H; Pass.

Clearly there is some reason why responder couldn't bid 2H on the second round of the auction. What was it? What did 2D mean?

[rogerclee]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 17 2009, 03:52 AM, said:

I'm confused by the methods. If you want to assign blame, you have to explain what you are playing.

I would bid 1C - 1S; 2C - 2H; 4D - 4H; Pass.

Clearly there is some reason why responder couldn't bid 2H on the second round of the auction. What was it? What did 2D mean?

Sorry, 2♦ was just an artificial game force (2♥ would not be forcing), 4♦ was a splinter.

[hatchett]

I would guess 2♦ was the Bourke relay, artificial GF. 2♥ showed hearts, 4♦ was a splinter.

[OleBerg]

Assuming that 2♦ and 2♥ are "reversed", thus 2♦ showing hearts, and can be minimum.*

Still, south's first 2♥ bid is an underbid. Game could be fine facing ♥AJxxx (or a lot of other hands where North will pass.)

Now after 4♦ South is has become afraid of his own shadow, as he has unshown values. Problem is, that these values are excellent for game, but mediocre for slam (few controls).

South could have bid 3♥ the first time, then a cuebid sequence could have been initiated, and the missing spadecontrol, combined with a missing ace, could have kept NS out of trouble.


* If 2♦ cannot be minimum, 2♥ is truly a monstrosity. If 2♦ has two or more possible meanings (only rationale for 2♥ that springs to mind), a better follow-up scheme is strongly recommended.

Ps.: Does the word "unshown" even exist?

[hatchett]

Keycard didn't tell South what he needed to know. He needs North either to have a fifth trump or ♠ AK. South could cue 5♣ over 4♦ and North would bid a Slam with either Axxxx AKxxx or AKxxx AKxx in the majors.

[Codo]

Yes south needs to know about one more trick besides 6 clubs and 4 hearts. And the only possible trick will be a spade, so south needs to find out about the king or at least queen of spades. He couldn|t below 5 heart, so he needs to gamble 6. I had done the same and gambled 6 too.

I won|t blame anybody. North was a little light for a move towards slam, but still not crazy.

[gnasher]

Codo, on Mar 17 2009, 01:11 PM, said:

south needs to find out about the king or at least queen of spades. He couldn|t below 5 heart

He could have done if he'd kept his Blackwood reflex under control. If South is going to move, he should do so with 5♣, denying a top spade. If responder has AK-AK in the majors, he will probably bid a slam over that.

[gnasher]

From North's point of view, slam needs a miraculous x QJxx xx(x) AKQxx(x). If that's what 4♦ asks for, fair enough, but it looks as though South expected more. Maybe you need to discuss what a splinter shows?

[Codo]

I think the wrong reflex was already the 4 diamond bid.
I guess 3 Heart, SI and GF had done the job much better.


Both this- or your thoughtful cuebidding style had solved the problem of this hand, but these methods had not been part of the partnership understanding, so maybe we should blame the wrong bidding system?

[RichMor]

gnasher, on Mar 17 2009, 08:45 AM, said:

From North's point of view, slam needs a miraculous x QJxx xx(x) AKQxx(x).  If that's what 4♦ asks for, fair enough, but it looks as though South expected more.  Maybe you need to discuss what a splinter shows?

I think that's the key point - what does a splinter show ?

If North could have either the hand shown or the same hand with the Spade King added, then South has a real problem.

IMO, the actual hand is right for a splinter.

[Apollo81]

I blame South and prefer a 5♣ cuebid. Hindsight is 20-20 of course.

[Fluffy]

As the other say, 4NT is an overbid, 5♣ is better.

4♦ is a bit agressive, sometimes it is best to just ignore that aprtner might ahve the perfect cards.

[whereagles]

Maybe North shouldn't have splintered (he knows pard has a min opener).

Maybe South should have downgraded his ♦K, in light of it being wasted and the danger of shape replication.

But it still seems more a question of "bidding isn't an exact science".

[hanp]

gnasher, on Mar 17 2009, 08:19 AM, said:

Codo, on Mar 17 2009, 01:11 PM, said:

south needs to find out about the king or at least queen of spades. He couldn|t below 5 heart

He could have done if he'd kept his Blackwood reflex under control. If South is going to move, he should do so with 5♣, denying a top spade.

Ditto, seems clear.

[mikeh]

I will join the chorus of those pointing the finger of blame at South.

The splinter was perfect, in my view... imagine catching x QJxx xx AKQxxx...

Either NS were on different wave-lengths as to what splinters showed, or S simply doesn't know how to bid co-operatively... he bid as if he held Kx Qxxx x AKQxxx.

I agree with those who say that the way forward, assuming one wants to go foward, is via 5♣.


It seems to me that since we are in a gf auction, we can assume that partner is limited for the splinter, since he had a strong slam move available via 3♥. When one has power moves available and splinters, and one chooses a splinter, one should not have significant undisclosed extras.

By moving, we are counting on partner holding at least AK AK in the majors.. AKxxx AKxx x xxx.... I doubt that I would splinter with that hand on this auction... it looks WAY to slammish... heck, with that hand, I'm closer to keycard than I am to splinter... this hand is way too good to pass a 4♥ signoff.

Yes, AKxxx AJxxx xx x makes a reasonable slam as well, but I never get upset at missing slams that are no better than a finesse.

[JLOL]

I think south has a routine 4H bid over a splinter. He has bad trumps and an 11 count with a stiff opposite stiff so the spades won't even go away on the clubs unless partner is 55.

In fact I doubt south realized how much less desirable his shape was than 1426.

[jdonn]

I think south is worth 5♣ over the splinter. If north had the same hand with the king of spades more then he would bid the same but pass 4♥. But blackwood is way too hyper for sure. Definitely true that south's diamond singleton is a waste.