[Poky]

Scoring: IMP

pa-pa-1♥-3♦
pa-pa-Dbl-pa
4♦

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Describe a typical hand your partner (asssume an expert) will hold for his bidding (pass->pass->4♦).

[Free]

Hmmm, perhaps something weak with ♠ and ♣, and pretty short in ♥ I guess. Very unusual bidding

[inquiry]

This is easier to describe what he doesn't have. He doesn't have ♥ support. He doesn't have ♦. But your reopening double has increased the value of his hand enough that he know wants to force to game, and in case you have a really good hand, suggest along the way that he is not broke. I really suspect he has three ♠ and a bunch of ♣'s and is offering a choice between 4♠ in possible moysein fit and five clubs. Why 3♠? Because if he had four spades and enough to be willing to cue-bid now, he would have made negative double earlier. Alternatively, he may have just the bunch of ♣ and plans to rebid 5♣ next making 4♦ and advanced cue bid. Much less likly is he might have 5/6 spade and some values, but I believe most would have made neg double with that hand.

Ok the fact is, you don't know which is he has... Game going in ♣ or game going in ♠ or a pickem. Let's see what you should do. You are minimum for the bidding, so I would tamely bid 4♠ and pass five ♣ should partner pull it that.

Ben

[whereagles]

I would play pard for a long and weak two-suiter in the black suit. Something like

QJxxx x x Jxxxxx, or

Kxxxx xx x QJxxx

[Flame]

You said assume expert, but even experts make mistakes, i would not assume too much, just believe he passed 3d with diamonds thinking about trap passing but then he got cold feets and decided not to pass it, this could be a close to opening with AQxx diamond 2(3) hearts and 4 spades. i would bid 4sp, just show what i got and let my brilient partner figure out what to do next.

[mishovnbg]

4♦ mean: "Choose game partner" and have max values for pass (principle of shell). Typical hand is 4+♠,5+♣,2-♥,2-♦. He pass previous round because not enough strength for take out double at 3 level.
Misho

[Trpltrbl]

My pd's hand got better with my X, he doesn't have ♥fit but has a blacksuited hand, with more ♣ then ♠. Not sure if pd has 4♠ for sure, depends on his style.

Mike

[the hog]

S+C without the strength to make a sputnik double on the previous round. I bid 4S.

[Fluffy]

4♦= I wanna play gaame in any of 2 suits, start bidding wich ones you want.

It may be 4♠+2♥, 5♠+3♥, 4♠+5♣, or 2♥+4/5♣.

Our task is to bid our first suit in wich we have more lenght than expected (we promised 3♠,5♥ & 3♣). But with care, 5♣ may be too high, so we are expected to bid just our best major, in case we have 3-5, just bid 4♥ and let him pass/correct.

On the given deal we have a clar 4♠ bid.

[Poky]

Ty all for answers and comments!

I was holding...

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...for this bidding.

Would anybody double on 1st round with this hand?

[bearmum]

Poky, on Jun 3 2004, 09:17 PM, said:

Ty all for answers and comments!

I was holding...

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...for this bidding.

Would anybody double on 1st round with this hand?

I would have OPENED 1♣ on that hand

[Poky]

bearmum, on Jun 3 2004, 10:14 AM, said:

I would have OPENED 1♣ on that hand

8 losing tricks. Too much for me...

[Free]

Yes 8 losers, so a weak NT opening

[flytoox]

Poky, on Jun 3 2004, 08:17 AM, said:

Ty all for answers and comments!

I was holding...

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...for this bidding.

Would anybody double on 1st round with this hand?

I like your first round pass, but i think 4c is better after pd's reopening dbl. If you think you have a game, just bid 5c. In competitive auction, when possible, always choose the clearer bid which pd can understand easily. 4D really tests pd and it costs a lot of energy, which will be useful for later game.

hongjun

[whereagles]

Well, I don't see any problem with 4♦, followed by 5♣

Opener will bid 4♠ most of the time, playing the cue-bidder for a weakish 55, but after the correction to 5♣ it should be clear: max passed hand, long clubs. A direct 5♣ over the double should show a more distributional hand, like Kx xxxx x KQxxxx.

The only problem of 4♦ is if they bid 5♦ and pard goes to 5♠, thinking you have the 55, lol.

[inquiry]

Everyone thinking 4♦ shows 5/5 reread my answer. How can partner have a 5/5 hand that was good enough to cue-bid now and not make a negative double earlier? Because such a 5/5 hand weak he will be signining off in game or partscore in spades, and with a 5/5 hand and values you would have made a negative double.

I think my description of the hand earlier (see my reply) is just about right. Long clubs, 3 spades, choice of contracts. I even said " is offering a choice between 4♠ in possible moysein fit and five clubs." With the ♥ hook winning (from bidding, good chance), 5♣ is not a bad contract, and might make six. And even if the ♥ loses you have a play for 5♣ (♥ may split, ♠Q might fall, ♥-♠ squeeze on your RHO oppoenent (non-preempter), Anyway, 5♣ should be reached without any difficulty now.

I am not so sure the hand with clubs is an opening bid. I believe I would have passed that hand as well, and I open some 7 and 8 hcp hands... "-)

Ben

[flytoox]

whereagles, on Jun 3 2004, 01:32 PM, said:

Well, I don't see any problem with 4♦, followed by 5♣

Opener will bid 4♠ most of the time, playing the cue-bidder for a weakish 55, but after the correction to 5♣ it should be clear: max passed hand, long clubs. A direct 5♣ over the double should show a more distributional hand, like Kx xxxx x KQxxxx.

The only problem of 4♦ is if they bid 5♦ and pard goes to 5♠, thinking you have the 55, lol.

I think 4D should deny 5card spades, if pd has it, he should bid it rather than fool around with 4D. Pd is likely to get lost in this crowded auction. If you plan to bid 5c after 4d, then what is your goal? are u aiming slam with 4d as control bid? This doesnt make much sense.

[flytoox]

inquiry, on Jun 3 2004, 01:45 PM, said:

Everyone thinking 4♦ shows 5/5 reread my answer. How can partner have a 5/5 hand that was good enough to cue-bid now and not make a negative double earlier? Because such a 5/5 hand weak he will be signining off in game or partscore in spades, and with a 5/5 hand and values you would have made a negative double.

I think my description of the hand earlier (see my reply) is just about right. Long clubs, 3 spades, choice of contracts. I even said " is offering a choice between 4♠ in possible moysein fit and five clubs." With the ♥ hook winning (from bidding, good chance), 5♣ is not a bad contract, and might make six. And even if the ♥ loses you have a play for 5♣ (♥ may split, ♠Q might fall, ♥-♠ squeeze on your RHO oppoenent (non-preempter), Anyway, 5♣ should be reached without any difficulty now.

I am not so sure the hand with clubs is an opening bid. I believe I would have passed that hand as well, and I open some 7 and 8 hcp hands... "-)

Ben

Ben, I fully agree with your analysis, esp. that pd is likely to have only 3card spade, However, 43 moysian game is not good here, as you will be forced to ruff in the hand with 4 trumps.

[inquiry]

Yes, a 4-3 fit here with partner having 3 small diamonds is horrible. Hopefully, the 4♦ bidder will pull to 5♣, as he knows this moysein is not good. (And in fact, bidding 5♣ is the clear intent after 4♦ here. If this was matchpoints, and his hand was 3-2-2-6, the moysein might not be so bad at all. Simply refuse to ruff the second ♦.

Ben

[whereagles]

Hum.. I see people are getting too picky with their interpretations of the cue. Fact is, if you didn't agree with pard what a cue here should show, this sequence could be just about anything. I don't think you can assign an incontroversial meaning to 4♦ otherwise.. Which is why I probably wouldn't bid 4♦, regardless of the fact I have 12 hcp and passed. (By the way, I'd pass on that hand only if playing a strong pass system, lol.)