[Lobowolf]

♠AK
♥Jx
♦QJ9xx
♠KTxx

Pairs, white on red, first seat. Club game today. The auction started:

1♦-(P)-1♥-(1♠)
??

I bid 1NT, and after (2♠) back around to me, I passed.

The continuation of the auction was foreseeable; if I wasn't willing to bid 3♣ (or double; I've already denied 3 hearts by not making a support double) over 2♠, should I have bid 2♣ the second time, instead of 1NT? With a pretty balanced 14 and the opponents' suit double-stopped, 1NT seemed straightforward. But it seems like the best opportunity to do something better than defend 2♠ is if I mention both suits now. I suppose I should have made this a poll. 2-parter:
A) 1NT or 2♣?
If 1NT, do I act over 2♠ in the passout seat with favorable vulnerability at pairs?

[hanp]

Lobowolf, on Mar 14 2009, 09:39 PM, said:

♠AK
♥Jx
♦QJ9xx
♠KTxx

Wait, I have my spades with my clubs AND the deck has two spade kings?

[hanp]

On a more serious note, I think you have to pass 2S now which is a good reason not to bid 1NT. I'd rather have KJx for my 1NT bid (defensive holding only) than AK tight (almost as useful on offense as on defense.)

I wouldn't have bid 1NT if RHO was silent and I don't see good reasons to change that now that RHO has bid spades.

[neilkaz]

I would have rebid 2♣ rather than 1NT but now I pass 2♠

[peachy]

I think there should be at least three choices, not just *1NT or 2C*. I would have passed 1S. Playing support doubles, Dbl obv is "3-card support"; Pass is "nothing to add what I already didn't promise with 1D opening" or possibly a trap pass waiting for partner to reopen with a double; and a bid of anything should be "a reason to bid". I do not see a reason to bid over 1S.

[whereagles]

1NT was ok, though 2♣ would be probably have been better, due to being more descriptive. Now, over 2♠, dbl and let pard sort it out

[Free]

I don't like 1NT, I'd rebid 2♣.

[OleBerg]

Don't particularily mind the rebid.

If I play this style, double now will show my hand.

(Ax in spades would be ideal, with the three point from the King elsewhere. But you cannot wait for the perfect hand.)

[Hanoi5]

1NT apparently turned out to be bad, but it depends on your methods. If double is TO, I'll try that. If partner might think I am doubling for penalties then I pass instead of 1NT. I prefer to bid 2♣ on a 5-5 but if partner will usually let 1♠ as the final contract when we have more the balance of the power then 2♣.

So Pass first or Double now if it isn't for penalties.

[jdonn]

I don't understand passing over 1♠, it's a 14 count with four clubs and two spade stoppers, why wouldn't you show at least part of that? I can definitely understand 1NT, it shows the nature of the hand well.

[whereagles]

jdonn, on Mar 15 2009, 05:06 PM, said:

(...) I can definitely understand 1NT, it shows the nature of the hand well.

Well, the problem with 1NT is that if LHO bids 2♠ and pard passes, we'll have a guess at the 3 level. If you bid 2♣, showing a 5-4, you bring pard into the picture. If he passes 2♠, so will you, without a qualm. (Maybe he has 44 majors )

[jdonn]

whereagles, on Mar 15 2009, 04:48 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 15 2009, 05:06 PM, said:

(...) I can definitely understand 1NT, it shows the nature of the hand well.

Well, the problem with 1NT is that if LHO bids 2♠ and pard passes, we'll have a guess at the 3 level. If you bid 2♣, showing a 5-4, you bring pard into the picture. If he passes 2♠, so will you, without a qualm. (Maybe he has 44 majors )

Actually I completely agree, that is the main downside of 1NT that clubs may be lost. The upside is that it may be hard to convince partner you have spades this well stopped if you don't make an effort immediately. For example after 2♣ if partner rebids 3♥ you want to bid 3NT and 4♥ at the same time and you pretty much have to guess between them. After 1NT you have already made a very strong statement about your spades, so if partner bids 3♥ you can happily bid 4♥. That is what I mean about 1NT showing the nature of our hand well.

[Codo]

I had bid 2 ♣ first, but unluckily that had endplayed me into passing 2 ♠.

Had I limited my hand with 1 NT, I would have had the opportunity to double 2 ♠.
In this case I must hope that partner is on the same wavelength and does not take this as a penalty.

[Phil]

Club game = matchpoints (I assume).

1N seems clear to me with a trick source and two spade stoppers.

If I bid 2♣ first, will 2N be natural over 2♠? (serious overbid by the way).

[Lobowolf]

Phil, on Mar 16 2009, 11:31 AM, said:

Club game = matchpoints (I assume).

1N seems clear to me with a trick source and two spade stoppers.

If I bid 2♣ first, will 2N be natural over 2♠? (serious overbid by the way).

Yes, matchpoint pair game. No contrary conventional agreements as to 2NT (e.g. good-bad, or anything like that).

[kfay]

I like 1N just fine. I have full values... that's what the bid shows.

You're right this really puts you in a pickle when 2♠ comes back around to you. But you've made your bed at this point I guess. Who knows what drek partner has.

I probably would have bid 1N. I can see how 2♣ has advantages.

[rogerclee]

I would bid 2♣, given that we have a doubleton spade it is not so surprising that the opponents would put us in this position by competing in spades! I think showing my shape is clear because of this, on top of the fact that it is easy for 2m/3m to outplay 1N.