[helene_t]

Btw, Biden's remark about a foreign power's testing out a new president with limited international/security experience, like the Cuba crisis and JFK, comes to mind.

[blackshoe]

Poland is an ally. We have an agreement with Poland to put this missile shield in place. The Polish government seems to want to hold us to that agreement. In view of that do you really think Obama should (or would) pull out of it?

Maybe he will pull out. What do you think Poland will do then?

[helene_t]

blackshoe, on Mar 15 2009, 11:55 PM, said:

Poland is an ally. We have an agreement with Poland to put this missile shield in place. The Polish government seems to want to hold us to that agreement. In view of that do you really think Obama should (or would) pull out of it?

Maybe he will pull out. What do you think Poland will do then?

Yeah, that's a good point. Obama cannot change the plans on his own, it will have to be discussed with the Nato partners.

[Winstonm]

blackshoe, on Mar 15 2009, 05:55 PM, said:

Poland is an ally. We have an agreement with Poland to put this missile shield in place. The Polish government seems to want to hold us to that agreement. In view of that do you really think Obama should (or would) pull out of it?

Maybe he will pull out. What do you think Poland will do then?

Can what a previous Secretary of State negotiated possibly be of any importance to the current administration? We don't seem to be bound by the terms of the treaties we sign, much less any promise we might make.

[jdonn]

Winstonm, on Mar 15 2009, 06:22 PM, said:

blackshoe, on Mar 15 2009, 05:55 PM, said:

Poland is an ally. We have an agreement with Poland to put this missile shield in place. The Polish government seems to want to hold us to that agreement. In view of that do you really think Obama should (or would) pull out of it?

Maybe he will pull out. What do you think Poland will do then?

Can what a previous Secretary of State negotiated possibly be of any importance to the current administration? We don't seem to be bound by the terms of the treaties we sign, much less any promise we might make.

Holding to a promise we made, even when by your owm admission it's not something we do? Sounds like meaningful change right in front of your nose.

[Winstonm]

Quote

Sounds like meaningful change right in front of your nose.

It may sound like change, but it smells like the same old *****.

Your unbridled commitment to and support for Obama is touching, but frankly, to me, it smacks of the same kind of blind allegiance and loyalty the Christian-right vowed for Bush.

[jdonn]

A post like my last one isn't meant to defend or support anything Obama did or didn't do, instead it's just to shoot down ridiculous arguments against it. You know, cheap shots with no reasoning behind them that are contradictory to comments continuously made by their poster, such as:

Winstonm, on Mar 15 2009, 06:22 PM, said:

Can what a previous Secretary of State negotiated possibly be of any importance to the current administration?  We don't seem to be bound by the terms of the treaties we sign, much less any promise we might make.

But I don't hold against you that your unbridled commitment to and support for cynicism toward any politician smacks of the same kind of blind allegiance and loyalty the Christian-right vowed for Bush. After all, if you disagree with anything and everything, you can never be said to be playing favorites.

[PassedOut]

Winstonm, on Mar 15 2009, 06:56 PM, said:

It may sound like change, but it smells like the same old *****. 

The change I see is the replacement of an irresponsible administration with a responsible one. And that's exactly the change I hoped for and got.

I don't agree with everything Obama does (by a long shot) and I won't in the future. But I did not expect that. I don't even see eye to eye with my wife on all issues (guns being at the top of the list).

In my opinion, it would be irresponsible in the other direction simply to reverse everything that Bush did without examining the cases for and against. (That said, I presume that in every particular situation it's likely that what Bush did was wrong.)

[Winstonm]

PassedOut, on Mar 15 2009, 07:37 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Mar 15 2009, 06:56 PM, said:

It may sound like change, but it smells like the same old *****.  

The change I see is the replacement of an irresponsible administration with a responsible one. And that's exactly the change I hoped for and got.

I don't agree with everything Obama does (by a long shot) and I won't in the future. But I did not expect that. I don't even see eye to eye with my wife on all issues (guns being at the top of the list).

In my opinion, it would be irresponsible in the other direction simply to reverse everything that Bush did without examining the cases for and against. (That said, I presume that in every particular situation it's likely that what Bush did was wrong.)

IMO it is not enough to simply change the leader; it is necessary to undo the damages done; so far, the Obama DOJ is simply whistling the same tune as did the Bush DOJ.

[PassedOut]

Winstonm, on Mar 15 2009, 07:49 PM, said:

IMO it is not enough to simply change the leader; it is necessary to undo the damages done; so far, the Obama DOJ is simply whistling the same tune as did the Bush DOJ.

Here's more evidennce that Obama is on the right track: Cheney Says Obama Has Increased Risks

Quote

Former Vice President Dick Cheney said Sunday that President Obama had made the country less safe, asserting that the new administration’s changes to detention and interrogation programs for terrorism suspects would hamper intelligence gathering.

Cheney has always appealed to the pants-pissers who would give up the Constitution to feel a little bit safer. He's not worth the paper he's printed on.

[Aberlour10]

blackshoe, on Mar 15 2009, 05:55 PM, said:

Poland is an ally. We have an agreement with Poland to put this missile shield in place. The Polish government seems to want to hold us to that agreement. In view of that do you really think Obama should (or would) pull out of it?

Maybe he will pull out. What do you think Poland will do then?

Polish goverment current motto on this case is: "wait and see". Deploy of US- Patriot missiles in Poland is important part of the valid agreement and if these batteries would be deployed permanent...it will content Poles...

Robert

[luke warm]

PassedOut, on Mar 16 2009, 12:07 AM, said:

Winstonm, on Mar 15 2009, 07:49 PM, said:

IMO it is not enough to simply change the leader; it is necessary to undo the damages done; so far, the Obama DOJ is simply whistling the same tune as did the Bush DOJ.

Here's more evidennce that Obama is on the right track: Cheney Says Obama Has Increased Risks

Quote

Former Vice President Dick Cheney said Sunday that President Obama had made the country less safe, asserting that the new administration’s changes to detention and interrogation programs for terrorism suspects would hamper intelligence gathering.

Cheney has always appealed to the pants-pissers who would give up the Constitution to feel a little bit safer. He's not worth the paper he's printed on.

i believe it's possible to be safe without resorting to unconstitutional liberty-grabbing... we'll see if i'm right or not, depending on how (or if) obama goes about it