[awm]

I don't really get the point of doubling. Suppose you play lebensohl in this auction, and partner bids 2NT lebensohl (as she almost always will). Now what? Are you really bidding 3♣? Is there any reason to think that 3m is a remotely reasonable partial, in what could be a 4-3 fit? Or do you pass 2NT? You could still easily miss a game in this sequence since partner could have 4-6 points.

This also has the effect of wrong-siding the notrump, which could actually be quite bad.

And even if partner digs up a 3m bid, are you really going to do anything other than bid 3NT (admittedly with a lot more hope of making than if you hadn't doubled first, but if you were bidding 3NT anyway I don't see how this helps except for possibly making it easier for opponents to double or not double, and/or find the right lead).

This also might create ethical issues for you if partner bids a slow 2NT.

[Phil]

Edmunte1, on Mar 9 2009, 02:35 AM, said:

There' no middle way here (dbl or 2NT) because you cannot involve partner in a decision here, it's only high-way 3NT and low-way pass.
My choice is the low-way pass because:
- we do not have a source of tricks
-A10x may be a illusory second stopper in ♥
-the spade length will provide maximum 2 tricks for us
-there's a bigger probability that partner is in 1-3 hcp range rather than 4-6 hcp range
-the win/loss raport is not in favour of bidding

Agree with Edmunte. This hand is a nice picture gallery and nothing more.

[MFA]

3NT.
I like my chances. Partner will have a few useful values more often than not.

[jdonn]

bid_em_up, on Mar 9 2009, 09:54 AM, said:

Imo, big hands with no clear direction and tolerance for the other suits should always start with double.

But this hand has a very clear direction. It is 4333 with stoppers all over the place. The direction is notrump.

Phil, on Mar 9 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

Agree with Edmunte. This hand is a nice picture gallery and nothing more.

Yup nothing more than half the strength in the deck. That's all it is.

[Phil]

jdonn, on Mar 9 2009, 10:50 AM, said:

Phil, on Mar 9 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

Agree with Edmunte. This hand is a nice picture gallery and nothing more.

Yup nothing more than half the strength in the deck. That's all it is.

Yes. And no tricks in a misfit auction.

[jdonn]

Is any auction that doesn't involve a direct raise as responder's first bid a misfit auction? Also I'm curious to see how you define "trick" since it seems different from my definition.

[hanp]

LOL, I still think 9 tricks is a long way off but Josh sure is winning this argument. (which is all he is after of course.)

[jdonn]

hanp, on Mar 9 2009, 12:40 PM, said:

LOL, I still think 9 tricks is a long way off but Josh sure is winning this argument. (which is all he is after of course.)

Of course. I said to begin with I don't really hate the choices that I didn't choose.

I was even generous, I said our 21 count was 'nothing more than half the deck'.

[hanp]

Well, according to Gerben a jack is 0 points so you have 19. Which is still more than half the deck!

[pretzalz]

I don't understand why double is takeout. Shouldn't 2N be for the minors and double strong balanced?

[TimG]

I think that we could be +200 or +300 defending 2S with some regularity. And, that the opponents will be able to double us in 3N with some frequency when it is going down a couple of tricks. So, the usual "we can make 3N 40%-50% of the time" reasoning doesn't quite work.

I would pass.