[Hanoi5]

I've always had an idea of what this sequennce showed.

Let's assume the double complies with the 3 normal requirements for doubles:

- Very few cards in their suit(s).
- (near) Opening-bid strength in HCP.
- At least 3 cards in the unbid suits, usually 4 in unbid Major(s).

Therefore there should be a tendency by advancer (doubler's partner) to bid unbid suits and bidding NT should be serious. So, in the sequence shown:

1S - X - Pass - 1NT

Where 1S is any suit, what does 1NT show? And why?

[Codo]

To me it shows 8-10 HCPS and a good (better two) stops in their suit.
It may be semibalanced, f.e with length in their suit but with no desire for a penalty pass.

[helene_t]

Beginners are probably still taught 6-9, but the modern trend is 8-10. This is because of the lighter modern t/o dbl style. Also, with 6-7 points you can just bid a suit.

[mtvesuvius]

8-10 with a stopper, because people love to double on trash.

[MFA]

6-10. No reason to pose idealistic requirements for this bid when awkward hands come up all the time where one responds 1NT anyway. Bidding 2m on four small is for instance often not very appetizing. And not to speak of a 3 card suit at the 2-level.

[Walddk]

I taught 6-9(10) 25 years ago. I still do.

Roland

[kgr]

0-7 HCP, relay to 2♣

[mikeh]

I use 8-10, but I don't object to stretching with 7 when the alternatives are truly ugly.. partner will play me for 8 and we live with the consequences.

One point I like to clarify with all partners is what doubler's 2minor should mean. To me, it should be a weak runout... and advancer may pull 2♣ to 2♦... hands that are 'double and bid suit to show strength', the classical meaning of the sequence, should almost invariably bid 3N or, if too strong or otherwise inappropriate, cue 2♠ to establish the gf.

[kenberg]

mikeh, on Mar 5 2009, 01:13 PM, said:

I use 8-10, but I don't object to stretching with 7 when the alternatives are truly ugly.. partner will play me for 8 and we live with the consequences.

One point I like to clarify with all partners is what doubler's 2minor should mean. To me, it should be a weak runout... and advancer may pull 2♣ to 2♦... hands that are 'double and bid suit to show strength', the classical meaning of the sequence, should almost invariably bid 3N or, if too strong or otherwise inappropriate, cue 2♠ to establish the gf.

The weak run-out interpretation makes sense to me but everyone tells me I'm crazy. Maybe they are just making a general assessment of my mental state unrelated to this issue.


Perhaps the weak runout interpretation is tied to the restricted range. If the 1NT shows something like 8-10 and presumably at least somewhat flat, it would seem doubler has enough information to make a reasonable estimate of where the hand should be played.

At the other extreme from 8-10, Mike Lawrence (Complete Book of Take-Out Doubles) provides the hand:

874
Q74
QJ5
J873


Over 1D-X-Pass he suggests 1NT rather than 2C. I suppose part of the logic is that since opener has to be prepared for both majors it ups the chances of him having something like Qxx in clubs.

I guess I expect a hand that can reasonably play in 1NT, presumably ruling out a 6 count but I agree that bidding 2C with the above is highly unattractive.

[rogerclee]

mikeh, on Mar 5 2009, 11:13 AM, said:

I use 8-10, but I don't object to stretching with 7 when the alternatives are truly ugly.. partner will play me for 8 and we live with the consequences.

One point I like to clarify with all partners is what doubler's 2minor should mean. To me, it should be a weak runout... and advancer may pull 2♣ to 2♦... hands that are 'double and bid suit to show strength', the classical meaning of the sequence, should almost invariably bid 3N or, if too strong or otherwise inappropriate, cue 2♠ to establish the gf.

Agree with this, though I play 2m is a natural signoff. I am not sure what you mean by "partner can pull 2♣ to 2♦"; of course he can do this, but he should be aware that we can easily be 2425.