[peachy]

Scoring: IMP

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Playing 2/1, opponents do not enter the bidding.
What contract do you want to be in?
What is your auction?

I'll let you know later what I perpetrated here.

[helene_t]

I want to be in 5♦.

It goes
p-1♦
1♥-1♠
2NT-3NT

[mtvesuvius]

3NT by North:

N  -  S
1♣ - 1♦
1♥ - 1♠
1NT - 3NT
All pass

That's right, I opened the North trash

[skjaeran]

1♣ - 1♠ (6-9 balanced or diamonds any strength)
1NT - 2♠ (natural unbalanced GF)
2NT - 3♣
3♦ - 3♠ (cue 4153)
4♣ - 4♦
5♦ - p

[kenrexford]

I want to be in 4♠ because I like story hands.

Actually, 4♠ is not that bad of a contract. On a bad day, both diamond honors are off-side, making 5♦ hopeless. In 4♠, however, I might easily survive this. If I guess spades right, and they split 4-3 as expected, I win eight black tricks and the diamond Ace. If the heart Ace is well-placed, that's trick #10.

I mean, sure -- it's a bad contract and a goofy story, but "could be."

[Echognome]

I want to be in 5♦ as well, but I'm sure I would be in 3NT.

P - 1♦
1♥ - 1♠
2♣* - 2♦ *XYZ
2NT - 3NT

[Fluffy]

depending on who partner is I would duplicate helene's or gnome's auction.

[gnasher]

pass-1♦
1♥-1♠
2NT-3♣
3♦-3♠
4♣-5♦

Raising 2NT to 3NT with the South hand is awful.

[Fluffy]

gnasher, may I ask why does north raise diamond when he has support for clubs and not for diamonds?

[Echognome]

Or alternatively, how does North resolve whether south is 4=1=4=4, 4=0=5=4, or 4=1=5=3?

[jdonn]

South bidding 3♣ over 2NT is of course the answer as long as it's understood this is forcing and not some 4054 minimum. That is really the only reasonable answer to the problem using standard methods IMO.

[gnasher]

It hadn't occurred to me that 3♣ might be construed as weak. That doesn't strike me as a very good use of the bid.

If 3♣ is natural and strong, I think it might be any of 4153, 4144, 4054 and 4063 - the key is that it highlights heart shortage. The route I suggested for North of 3♦ followed by 4♣ caters for all of these shapes. If North were to raise clubs immediately, I think it should show five of them.

Where I come from, 3♣ might be treated as fourth-suit forcing, just showing enough for game with doubt about strain (and not three hearts, obviously). The auction would be much the same, though - once South bids 3♠, North knows that 3NT is unlikely to be right.

[awm]

I think 3NT(N) is a fine contract. In fact I prefer it to 5♦.

To make 5♦, you basically need one of two diamond honors onside, which is 75%... although there is some chance to go down on a ruff if clubs are 5-1 or the like which brings it down a bit.

To make 3NT(N), I'm cold on a heart lead (3♠, 1♥, 1♦, 4♣) or a spade lead (4♠, 1♦, 4♣). If opponents lead a minor, I can always play a spade to the ten and make if either my spade finesse wins, or if the heart ace is onside (75%, and I don't need to worry about "bad breaks").

[jdonn]

awm, on Feb 26 2009, 05:58 PM, said:

I think 3NT(N) is a fine contract. In fact I prefer it to 5♦.

To make 5♦, you basically need one of two diamond honors onside, which is 75%... although there is some chance to go down on a ruff if clubs are 5-1 or the like which brings it down a bit.

To make 3NT(N), I'm cold on a heart lead (3♠, 1♥, 1♦, 4♣) or a spade lead (4♠, 1♦, 4♣). If opponents lead a minor, I can always play a spade to the ten and make if either my spade finesse wins, or if the heart ace is onside (75%, and I don't need to worry about "bad breaks").

If they lead a diamond how do you play? (I'll grant it's unlikely though)

[gnasher]

awm, on Feb 26 2009, 11:58 PM, said:

To make 3NT(N), I'm cold on a heart lead (3♠, 1♥, 1♦, 4♣) or a spade lead (4♠, 1♦, 4♣). If opponents lead a minor, I can always play a spade to the ten and make if either my spade finesse wins, or if the heart ace is onside (75%, and I don't need to worry about "bad breaks").

3NT is better than that: even if ♥A and ♠10 are both wrong, you still make when both diamonds are onside, so it's about 81%.

It would be nice to be able to cater for a singleton diamond honour offside as well, by cashing ♦A first, but I think the repeated club leads mess up your communications.

[gnasher]

jdonn, on Feb 27 2009, 12:12 AM, said:

If they lead a diamond how do you play? (I'll grant it's unlikely though)

You play the ace, then take a spade finesse.

[xcurt]

I hate to be boring, but this hand is a screaming advertisement for mini-NTs. South will relay out north's shape and put it in 3NT.

[mike777]

assuming Walsh style 2/1 where the diamond suit is often by passed:

1c=1d
1nt(11-13)=2s(5d and 4s, gf)
2nt=3c
3d=4d
5d

South may bid 4h (kickback) over 3d but still ends up in 5d.

[mtvesuvius]

IMO 3NT by North is WAY better than 5♦, for the reasons stated my (the other) Adam... It makes more often than 5♦... As Andy said: 81% or so, 5♦ is about 76%... So 3NT is better. Chances are the lead will give away a trick, if not, you still can find the Jxx♠, the A♥ onside or the KQ♦ onside. A low ♦ (a very unlikely lead) gives the most problem, but still pretty much the same chances

[hanp]

xcurt, on Feb 26 2009, 07:29 PM, said:

I hate to be boring, but this hand is a screaming advertisement for mini-NTs. South will relay out north's shape and put it in 3NT.

Not to worry, you are not boring at all. I do think you are very wrong though, south will have NO IDEA where to place the contract after knowing north's shape. The only ones who will benefit from relaying opener's shape are the opponents.

In general I think relaying the shape of a 1NT-opener is a winner on slam hands (especially grand-slam hands) and a loser on choice-of games hands.