[Fluffy]

North dealer, E-W vulnerable.

♠A5
♥A2
♦KJ9
♣AK10963

N - E - S - W
ps-1♦-X-3♦
4♠-ps-??


Bonus: Would you act differently if partner wasn't a passed hand?

[Apollo81]

Pass.

My diamond cards are of dubious value, and the extra high cards I have are offset by my poor trump support.

[mtvesuvius]

Pass. In this situation partner has real long spades with <11 HCP so we have no interest in slam or correcting.

[marcD]

deleted misread the bidding

[Apollo81]

marcD, on Feb 24 2009, 12:29 PM, said:

I must say it would not occur to me to double with that hand. I would try 3NT even if partner had not passed. I guess it is a matter of style. BTW, i do not think partner has necessarily long spades

Surely he has at least 5. I challenge you to construct a hand where he does not.

[Codo]

mtvesuvius, on Feb 25 2009, 01:22 AM, said:

Pass. In this situation partner has real long spades with <11 HCP so we have no interest in slam or correcting.

He passed allready, so he cannot have real long spades. He has at most (and nearly always) 5.

I am not sure about passing. Partner passed and jumped to game now.

Give him KQxxx,xxx,x,Qxxx and 6 NT or 6 club are sure.
Give him KQxxx,Kxxx,x,xxx and the slam is on clubs 2-2.
And he cannot have less.

So I will not pass.
I go for 6 Club, because I have no idea, how I can involve partner to evalute whether 5 Club or 6 Club is right.

[jdonn]

Codo, on Feb 24 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

Give him KQxxx,xxx,x,Qxxx and 6 NT or 6 club are sure.
Give him KQxxx,Kxxx,x,xxx and the slam is on clubs 2-2.
And he cannot have less.

So I will not pass.
I go for 6 Club, because I have no idea, how I can involve partner to evalute whether 5 Club or 6 Club is right.

I see you credit partner with a singleton diamond based on the opposition bidding. But partner doesn't need a singleton diamond, he can easily have a doubleton, the preemptive raise is frequently made with four card support by lots of players. In fact if RHO is 4432 partner might have three diamonds and misjudged US to have a singleton! In any case I could sort of understand a 5♣ bid but I pass.

[kenrexford]

This is really tough to pursue. I mean, partner could have a fairly great hand that falls apart at slam, like ♠Kxxxxx ♥xxxx ♦--- ♣xxx. You just go down, and the five-level might not be safe.

[Mosene]

Does everyone agree that partner cannot have ♠ QJTXXX with maybe an outside queen somewhere? With 6=3=1=3 type hand? Is that always a pre-empt first?

[Codo]

jdonn, on Feb 25 2009, 04:21 AM, said:

But partner doesn't need a singleton diamond, he can easily have a doubleton, the preemptive raise is frequently made with four card support by lots of players. In fact if RHO is 4432 partner might have three diamonds and misjudged US to have a singleton! In any case I could sort of understand a 5♣ bid but I pass.

Partner jumped to game, so that is another clue for beliving in his singleton diamond. I mean, he must have a quite special hand to pass first and bid 4 Spades after our double.

I look at 19 HCPS and one opp opened (in second seat), one raised vulnerable and my partner jumped to game. For me this sounds like quite interessting shapes around.

RHO should make a 3 ♦ bid on a 4432 hoping that we will make a mistake? In red against white? Nothing is impossible, but I never saw this before. HE rates to have around 0-5 HCPs, so 3 Diamond is surely based on shape and fit.

But even when I err and partner bid this way with KQxxx,xx,xxx,xxx Slam is still making with clubs 2-2 and this is not even close to a jump to 4 Spade over a preemptive 3 ♦ bid by a passed hand.

My biggest fear is that partner may have a 6421 hand- no shape for a weak two or a two suiter and no fit in clubs.

[jdonn]

Codo, on Feb 24 2009, 05:15 PM, said:

Partner jumped to game, so that is another clue for beliving in his singleton diamond. I mean, he must have a quite special hand to pass first and bid  4 Spades after our double.

Well your own example hand was KQxxx Kxxx x xxx. So why not KQxxx Kxxx xxx x?

Quote

RHO should make a 3 ♦ bid on a 4432 hoping that we will make a mistake? In red against white? Nothing is impossible, but I never saw this before. HE rates to have around 0-5  HCPs, so 3 Diamond is surely based on shape and fit.

I might have mixed up rho and lho (edit: no I didn't, you did ), but I meant they could have opened 1♦ on 4432 and raised it on four card support, not the other way around. That is very possible.

[whereagles]

pard may have based his bid on a normal dbl by us... or maybe not

I prefer to guess 5C

[kenrexford]

How about something simple like ♠xxxxxx ♥KQxx ♦x ♣xx?

That's no 2♠ opening, and it sure bodes ill for 6♠. I'd rather try to make 6♣ opposite that junk.

(Could 6♣ make? Hope for a diamond lead, club switch (clubs QJ tight). Ruff a diamond, back to hand with a spade. Pull trumps. Up to six clubs in hand, one diamond in hand, one diamond ruff = 8 tricks. Three more coming in hearts, for 11. We need only for Opener to have something like ♠KQJx ♥Jxxx ♦Qxx ♣QJ and Responder ♠x ♥xxx ♦Axxxxx ♣xxx. Sure, that works for the squeeze. Funny thing is that his layout is distinctly possible. I'm convinced!!! 6♣ is obvious. LOL)

[Fluffy]

Well done Roland, you imagined the bid at the table (6♣) and what actually dummy held (6412). I don't remeber the full hand but I think it was something very close to the hand ken rexford wrote but with a club honnor.


Partner could not have 3 clubs, but he is likelly to have them. Is aiming for that holding so bad?


On the other hand... Do you think you should always bid 4♦ with 5 spades and 4 hearts?

[kenrexford]

Fluffy, on Feb 26 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

Do you think you should always bid 4♦ with 5 spades and 4 hearts?

Yes.