[rogerclee]

IMPs, All White, First Seat

♠Qx ♥Axx ♦Kxx ♣AKQxx

1♣ - (1♠) - 3NT - (P)
?

[whereagles]

6NT seems canonical. Or 4♠ in case pard is a joker like me, who bids 3NT on ♠Txx.

[Codo]

6 NT, jokers will learn the hard way.

[hatchett]

I would begin with 4♣, 6♣ could easily be the right spot.

[whereagles]

hatchett, on Feb 16 2009, 12:18 PM, said:

I would begin with 4♣, 6♣ could easily be the right spot.

That may be so, but how do you propose to find out if 6♣ > 6NT?

[jdonn]

4NT. If partner is the type to hold Txx of spades here then I hope that's exactly what he has on this hand.

[hatchett]

Quote

That may be so, but how do you propose to find out if 6♣ > 6NT

Well telling partner I have ♣s is a start. Maybe partner has 4♣s and Hx in a red suit and can work out for himself.

[Phil]

The way to bring clubs into the picture without overcommitting is 5N. I would expect pard to bid 6♣ with a ruffing value in a hand like K9xx Kx AQxx xxx

[neilkaz]

I'm a simple soul..4♣ says that I have good ♣ and am looking for a slam.

[skjaeran]

This is close for me.

But I think I'll go with 5NT - pick a slam.
If LHO has something like JTxxx KQx Axx xx and partner AKxx JTx QJTx Jx I want to be in 6NT by partner, to avoid the killing heart lead. If partner has AJxx Kx QJxx JTx, I want to be in 6♣. Partner should get this right.

But I'm very close to just raising to 4NT.

[FrancesHinden]

jdonn, on Feb 16 2009, 04:48 PM, said:

4NT. If partner is the type to hold Txx of spades here then I hope that's exactly what he has on this hand.

4NT seems a little feeble here.

Partner wasn't under any pressure over 1S, he could have jumped to 2NT to show a full value invite. He could have shown four hearts via a take-out double. He could have bid a 5-card diamond suit. He could have shown a good club raise. With a good hand but doubt about where to play he could have lied slightly and done one of those things at a lower level.

A scientific bidding partner really should have

A good 12 - poor 15 HCP (depending a bit on your style of opening)
A proper double spade stop
Not more than 3 hearts, 4 diamonds or 3 clubs. That makes him 3343, 4342, 4243 or 4333. He might also have a fifth spade, although that is less likely.

Opposite any hand satisfying those criteria, surely we are going to have play for slam? Something like

KJxx
Kxx
Axx
Jxx

has minimum HCP, the wrong 4-card suit and no pips, and looks like a 2NT bid to me... yet is only the 9 of spades away from being a huge slam.

The problem with all our slam tries is that partner won't like having no club honour. In spite of that I'm going to start with 4C, assuming I'm playing some five-card major system. Let's tell partner we have a real suit.. perhaps he decided to bid 3NT on AJ10x Kxx Ax Jxxx rather than admit to club suppport, then he'll go bezerk after 4C from us and we'll reach 7 easily.

[jdonn]

FrancesHinden, on Feb 16 2009, 02:17 PM, said:

A scientific bidding partner really should have

A good 12 - poor 15 HCP (depending a bit on your style of opening)
A proper double spade stop
Not more than 3 hearts, 4 diamonds or 3 clubs.  That makes him 3343, 4342, 4243 or 4333. He might also have a fifth spade, although that is less likely.

Opposite any hand satisfying those criteria, surely we are going to have play for slam?

AJxx Kxx Axx Jxx
AKx KQx xxxx Jxx
KJx KQx QJxx Jxx
KJxx QJT AKx xxx

Some of those (certainly the last one) have a play, and opposite the last one I will be in slam anyway, but I know you know that's not my point.

Anyway I think most of your points are fine except for partner not liking his lack of any club honor. The bidding should be strictly quantitative, with the exception of partner likely upgrading for a spade holding like KJTx.

I agree with you in bidding 4♣ if I were to force to slam. I strongly disagree with the posters who think if they bid 5NT partner will bid 6♣ on xxx simply because he has a doubleton somewhere. I think they are too influenced by looking at their actual hand and knowing what they want their partner to do. The right amount of club enthusiasm is to bid them again, and if partner shows interest in clubs THEN you offer the choice of slams.

Edit: I changed the part about lack of a club fit from what Mike posted below to what I meant to say.

[mikeh]

jdonn, on Feb 16 2009, 02:48 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Feb 16 2009, 02:17 PM, said:

A scientific bidding partner really should have

A good 12 - poor 15 HCP (depending a bit on your style of opening)
A proper double spade stop
Not more than 3 hearts, 4 diamonds or 3 clubs.  That makes him 3343, 4342, 4243 or 4333. He might also have a fifth spade, although that is less likely.

Opposite any hand satisfying those criteria, surely we are going to have play for slam?

AJxx Kxx Axx Jxx
AKx KQx xxxx Jxx
KJx KQx QJxx Jxx
KJxx QJT AKx xxx

Some of those (certainly the last one) have a play, and opposite the last one I will be in slam anyway, but I know you know that's not my point.

Anyway I think most of your points are fine except for partner not liking any club honor. The bidding should be strictly quantitative, with the exception of partner likely upgrading for a spade holding like KJTx.

I agree with you in bidding 4♣ if I were to force to slam. I strongly disagree with the posters who think if they bid 5NT partner will bid 6♣ on xxx simply because he has a doubleton somewhere. I think they are too influenced by looking at their actual hand and knowing what they want their partner to do. The right amount of club enthusiasm is to bid them again, and if partner shows interest in clubs THEN you offer the choice of slams.

I agree with much of what you say, Josh.. including the upgrade of KJ10x... but will he also upgrade, for slam purposes, AJ9x.... because your 4N need not promise and often will not deliver a spade honour.

As for Frances' comments, I agree with much of what she says, but my expectation is that partner may well hold 4 clubs (note.. not that he WILL hold 4♣.. I would expect him to hold 3 more than often than any other number)... with the double spade stop, some red suit honours and xxxx in clubs, why confuse the issue by cue-bidding and then bidding 3N? With our own 4324, say AJ9x KJx Ax xxxx, are we really wanting to suggest doubt about 3N.... which is how I think most would play the cue then 3N approach?

Anyway, I opt for the 4♣ call because I have room to sort it out. I am driving to slam... I will bid 5N over his 4N, and now he will bid 6♣ with, say, 4=2=4=3, which may well be the superior slam.

[FrancesHinden]

If I'm not driving to slam, then perhaps 4NT is a better call as it is more likely to have something in spades. If we bid 4C partner might view us as having something like a 1-3-3-6 and downgrade minor spade honours and upgrade the ace. Mikeh has persuaded me that 4 clubs opposite is more likely than I originally suggested.

What should 4S mean over 3NT? I suggest it says we are playing in clubs, and may well have a spade void - but I've never discussed it with anyone.

Whether or not to drive slam feels like it might be a good hand for a simulation, except personally I can't be bothered.

p.s. we'll avoid slam opposite KJx KQx QJxx Jxx because over 4C of course partner will tell me how many aces he has...

[rogerclee]

Partner has ♠AJ9x ♥Qx ♦AJxx ♣Jxx, so it appears that anything except 4N will get you to a making slam, unless you think this hand should accept the invitation.