[thebiker]

Many players play that 1Ma 2NT is a good raise to 3Ma or beyond, others play that
1Ma 2NT is a game force in the major
Does anyone play that 1S 2NT shows either of the above and that 1H 2S is the equivalent sequence for hearts?
Do you know of any top pairs that play along these lines?

What would be the disadvantages of playing 1H 2S as a good heart raise?
(apart from allowing the oppo an easier passage into the auction by doubling to show spades)

There would be some advantage in playing this way
If you play that 1Ma 2NT asks opener to describe their hand via 3C, 3D etc
playing 1H 2S would make more space available below 4H's than playing simple
1H 2NT

thank you in advance for your thoughts and observations

Brian Keable alias "thebiker"

[helene_t]

Yes, 1♥-2♠ as an invitational or strong hearts raise is called a Garozzo Raise.

[rogerclee]

Disadvantages:
1) You lose whatever 1♥-2♠ means.
2) Unlike most cases, where the opponents' ability to double your artificial bid is only a minor annoyance, it is a serious disadvantage in 1♥-2♠ auctions, since you are making it way more likely to face a 4♠ sacrifice over your 4♥ contract.

Advantages:
1) 1♥-2N is now available to show some useful type of hand, like a balanced GF or something like this, which gives more integrity to your 1♥-2m auctions.
2) You get an extra step, which is actually really useful in terms of making your Jacoby 2N structure more efficient. For example, you could give yourself two ways to splinter, one being minimum and the other showing extras.

My opinion, which is not based on experience playing this convention, is that it's not really worth it, but there are certainly some good pairs who play 1♥-2♠ = artificial raise.

[rbforster]

I like how you can use the same structures over 1♥-2♠ as you can over 1♠-2N. Personally I use both of these for various strong hands, but use the same principle in playing Jacoby 2N over hearts but "Jacoby 3♣" over spades.

[FrancesHinden]

In one partnership I play that 1H - 2S means exactly the same as 1S - 2NT, with a (virtually) identical set of relays over it.

We also play that 1H - 2NT means exactly the same as 1S - 3C, and 1H - 3C means exactly the same as 1S - 3D, and 1H - 3D means exactly the same as 1S - 3H.

[MFA]

Some here play 2♠ as exactly limit with 3 hearts.

[Gerben42]

Quote

In one partnership I play that 1H - 2S means exactly the same as 1S - 2NT, with a (virtually) identical set of relays over it.

We also play that 1H - 2NT means exactly the same as 1S - 3C, and 1H - 3C means exactly the same as 1S - 3D, and 1H - 3D means exactly the same as 1S - 3H

I do that too, but we use 1M - 2M+2 as the forcing raise (Jacoby).

[sireenb]

FrancesHinden, on Feb 13 2009, 10:03 AM, said:

In one partnership I play that 1H - 2S means exactly the same as 1S - 2NT, with a (virtually) identical set of relays over it.

I play the same with my regular partner. 1♥-2♠ is equivalent to a Jacoby 2NT. We play precision so this is usually quite a strong hand. A key advantage is that opener shows ♠ shortness by bidding 2NT leaving lots of space to investigate slam below game level.

This is combined with inverted Bergen raises so 1♥-2NT is invitational+ with 4+ card fit which allows using 3♣/♦ for short suit trial bids.

I cannot remember any disaster from opponents' X although we have been playing this for years.

[gnasher]

The biggest disadvantage is that you lose a weak jump shift in spades. This has a particularly large cost if you play the style where
  1♥-1♠
  something-2♠
is constructive and
  1♥-1♠
  something-3♠
is forcing.

[ArtK78]

I play 1♥ - 2♠ as a heart raise of invitational or better strength, and 1♠ - 2NT as the same, while 1♥ - 2NT is Jacoby and 1♠ - 3♣ is Jacoby. It is all part of an integrated structure which includes Bergen, mini-splinters, regular splinters and maxi-splinters:

1♥ - 2♥ Bergen single raise - 3 card support 6 to a bad 10 HCP (could be 4333 with 4 hearts).

1♥ - 2♠ Heart raise, various types. Opener bids 2NT to inquire. Responder continues with:
3♣ mini-splinter in clubs
3♦ mini-splinter in diamonds
3♥ mini-splinter in spades
3♠ maxi-splinter in spades
3NT - 3 card support, balanced hand, 15-17 HCP
4♣ maxi-splinter in clubs
4♦ maxi-splinter in diamonds
4♥ 4 or 5 card support, 15-17 HCP, balanced hand

1♥ - 2NT Jacoby raise
1♥ - 3♣ Bergen mixed raise
1♥ - 3♦ Bergen limit raise
1♥ - 3♥ Preemptive raise
1♥ - 3♠ Regular splinter
1♥ - 3NT "Good" raise to 4♥
1♥ - 4♣ Regular splinter
1♥ - 4♦ Regular splinter
1♥ - 4♥ "Bad" raise to 4♥

1♠ - 2♠ Bergen single raise - 3 card support 6 to a bad 10 HCP (could be 4333 with 4 spades).

1♠ - 2NT Spade raise, various types. Opener bids 3♣ to inquire. Responder continues with:
3♦ mini-splinter in diamonds
3♥ mini-splinter in hearts
3♠ maxi-splinter in clubs
3NT - 3 card support, balanced hand, 15-17 HCP
4♣ maxi-splinter in clubs
4♦ maxi-splinter in diamonds
4♥ maxi-splinter in hearts
4♠ 4 or 5 card support, 15-17 HCP, balanced hand

1♠ - 3♣ Jacoby raise. Opener bids 3♦ with a singleton in a minor suit. Responder can puppet with 3♥, and opener bids 3♠ with a club singleton, 3NT with a diamond singleton.
1♠ - 3♦ Bergen mixed raise
1♠ - 3♥ Bergen limit raise
1♠ - 3♠ Preemptive raise
1♠ - 3NT "Good" raise to 4♠
1♠ - 4♣ Regular splinter
1♠ - 4♦ Regular splinter
1♠ - 4♥ Regular splinter
1♠ - 4♠ "Bad" raise to 4♥

This was introduced to me by David Treadwell shortly after Bergen raises were introduced. I have been playing these methods since then with several partners.

[blackshoe]

helene_t, on Feb 13 2009, 09:38 AM, said:

Yes, 1♥-2♠ as an invitational or strong hearts raise is called a Garozzo Raise.

It's also an integral part of the Romex system, where it's called something else, the name of which escapes me, at the moment.

[awm]

With several partners I play the following methods:

1♥ - 2♠ or 1♠ - 2NT = either limit raise with shortness somewhere or GF raise
1♥ - 2NT or 1♠ - 3♣ = balanced or semi-balanced limit raise

After the strong raise, opener's first priority is to clarify strength. For example 1♥-2♠:

2NT = bad hand, not always game-going
..... 3♣, 3♦, 3♥ show shortness with 3♥ being specifically a NF limit raise
..... 3♠-4♦ are various slammish actions
..... 4♥ is to play with no slam interest opposite a bad hand
3♣ = okay hand, accepting game
..... 3♦ = void somewhere (3♥ relays)
..... 3♥ = please cuebid now
..... 3♠ = RKC
..... 3N, 4♣, 4♦ = shortness with at least mild slam interest
3♦ = good hand, could have slam opposite the right limit raise, no voids
..... 3♥ = void somewhere
..... 3♠ = balanced GF
..... 3N-4♦ = singleton
3♥ = good hand ask cuebid
3♠ = RKC
3NT-4♦ = void-showing

After the balanced limit raise, opener can look for a 4-4 fit in the other major (balanced limit raise can be three-card) or can ask clarification of partner's trump length by making a counter try or can simply sign off in 3M or in game.

[neilkaz]

Noting that some methods like Inquiry 2/1 have a 2♣ response to 1M having a couple other possible meanings as well as a 2/1 GF in ♣ why not play that 2♣ is either reverse drury or a GF 2/1 ? Opener with a dog vs the limit raise just rebids 2M and the partnership isn't forced to the 3 level. Opener with a sound opening can rebid as per rev drury. In these cases responder can bid 3♣ with the real ♣ 2/1. When the 2♣ bid is a limit raise there's all kinds of room for invites and hand description and also this limit raise can be stretched a bit to the weak side since room for invites exists and since opener's real minimums rebid 2M

Of course this method is subject to enemy interferrence, but that can always be an issue, however, the opening side does have the balance of strength.

[straube]

I like RM Precision's...

1H-2S=8-10 with six spades
1H-1N (forcing)=can conceal six spades with less than 8
1H-2m=the proper way to bid when GF with only four spades
1H-1S, 2m-2S=GF with 5 spades
1H-1S, 2H-2S=GF with 5 spades
1H-1S, 2L-3S=GI with 11-12

[thebiker]

All
Thank you for your replies and interest in this subject

regards

Brian Keable alais "thebiker"

[jwmonty]

straube, on Feb 13 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

I like RM Precision's...

1H-2S=8-10 with six spades
1H-1N (forcing)=can conceal six spades with less than 8
1H-2m=the proper way to bid when GF with only four spades
1H-1S, 2m-2S=GF with 5 spades
1H-1S, 2H-2S=GF with 5 spades
1H-1S, 2L-3S=GI with 11-12

How does this change when responder is a PH? The GF hands with exactly five spades won't be there anymore, and many of the hands with six spades will already have opened a weak two, or a light 1S opening. You also won't have a four-card spade suit with GF values either. Their PH methods must be considerably different, it seems.

[straube]

jwmonty, on Feb 15 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

straube, on Feb 13 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

I like RM Precision's...

1H-2S=8-10 with six spades
1H-1N (forcing)=can conceal six spades with less than 8
1H-2m=the proper way to bid when GF with only four spades
1H-1S, 2m-2S=GF with 5 spades
1H-1S, 2H-2S=GF with 5 spades
1H-1S, 2L-3S=GI with 11-12

How does this change when responder is a PH? The GF hands with exactly five spades won't be there anymore, and many of the hands with six spades will already have opened a weak two, or a light 1S opening. You also won't have a four-card spade suit with GF values either. Their PH methods must be considerably different, it seems.

Good point. I'm less familiar with their PH methods.

I know that they use a form of Drury. From memory, their 2C is a LR and their 2D is a constructive raise. They don't use the 2-way form of Drury in which 2C and 2D differentiate 3 and 4-card raises.

Also, they have less need to show hands with six spades. They probably would have opened the GI spade hand (11-12) with a bid of one spade and they probably would have preempted the others with two spades (or 2D in events in which multi 2D are allowd) so a lot of these hands disappear.

I had left out that in their unpassed hand auctions that 1H-1S can be 3-1-(54) if less than GI strength. They can get away with this because opener is limited to 15 or so and isn't likely to jump to 4S after this. What's the gain? It allows for a more natural rebid by opener and avoidance of silly contracts. For instance...
4-5-2-2 opposite 3-1-5-4 gets to 2S and not 2C
3-5-2-3 opposite 3-1-5-4 gets to 1N and not 2C
What does opener rebid with 4S and 6H? I wish I knew. It probably makes more sense to raise spades. Anyway, the whole point of mentioning the 3-1-(54) is to say that with a PH I imagine they promise four spades (since it's not a forcing bid). I also imagine that 1H-1N by a PH is nf.

I don't know what their 1H-2S by a PH is. I can speculate what someone could do with that bid...

2S-unspecified splinter with LR, 2N asks
2N, 3C, 3D-fit showing jumps with spades, clubs, diamonds and LR support

Meckwell probably plays something better