[Codo]

This scenario:

You play the Individual championship in your state.

Most play the given system, 5 card majors, strong NT, transfers papa-mama bridge. Lebensohl and or Scrambling are not part of this system.

You sit down opposite an unknown partner, maybe you had heard about him, but you never played with him before.

Scoring: MP

---

partner rho: you lho
1 NT 2♠ 2 NT pass
3♣

2 Spade showed spades
So, please don't critisze the 2 NT bid, you made it and have to life with it.

What do you do now?
What do you expect partner to have?

[Hanoi5]

I expect partner to have bid an automatic lebensohl. I have the stopper so 3NT. If he's too scared he could bid 4♣ over 3NT, but I'm not passing 3♣.

[the hog]

Lebensoh is not part of the system. I pass.

[jdonn]

If partner makes this 3♣ bid then IMO it is over 99% he thought we were playing lebensohl. If the point is that partner alerted 2NT then sure that gives me UI but I would never ever ever ever pass 3♣ because even behind screens the odds he thinks it's lebensohl dwarf the odds he meant 3♣ as natural.

You can think of it another way. If you are wrong, it's a lot less harmful to be wrong by bidding 3NT which you might even get lucky and make. It's quite harmful to pass 3♣ and be wrong.

In short, at the table I do not consider pass a logical alternative, despite the previous answer.

[rogerclee]

The_Hog, on Feb 10 2009, 05:03 AM, said:

Lebensoh is not part of the system. I pass.

LOL

[kfay]

Well we're already screwed on this board most likely.

I'd totally expect this to be a leb. response from partner.

I bid 3NT. Maybe we're lucky and they were going to make 2♠. Maybe we're really lucky and we make.

[rogerclee]

kfay, on Feb 10 2009, 09:59 AM, said:

Well we're already screwed on this board most likely. 

I'd totally expect this to be a leb. response from partner.

I bid 3NT.  Maybe we're lucky and they were going to make 2♠.  Maybe we're really lucky and we make.

Why is this lucky, if partner has 6 clubs I have the BEST HAND EVER AND EXPECT THIS TO MAKE WAY MORE THAN 50% OF THE TIME

SEE ABOVE LOL

[jdonn]

rogerclee, on Feb 10 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

kfay, on Feb 10 2009, 09:59 AM, said:

Well we're already screwed on this board most likely. 

I'd totally expect this to be a leb. response from partner.

I bid 3NT.  Maybe we're lucky and they were going to make 2♠.  Maybe we're really lucky and we make.

Why is this lucky, if partner has 6 clubs I have the BEST HAND EVER AND EXPECT THIS TO MAKE WAY MORE THAN 50% OF THE TIME

SEE ABOVE LOL

LOL at you for LOLing for the wrong reason. If partner really does have clubs then he is running because he is weak, and they will usually set up their tricks before we set up ours.

You should LOL at passing because 3♣ is almost never meant as natural, it's always someone who thought we were playing lebensohl!

[kfay]

rogerclee, on Feb 10 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

kfay, on Feb 10 2009, 09:59 AM, said:

Well we're already screwed on this board most likely. 

I'd totally expect this to be a leb. response from partner.

I bid 3NT.  Maybe we're lucky and they were going to make 2♠.  Maybe we're really lucky and we make.

Why is this lucky, if partner has 6 clubs I have the BEST HAND EVER AND EXPECT THIS TO MAKE WAY MORE THAN 50% OF THE TIME

SEE ABOVE LOL

Dude. Then I feel totally lucky that it wasn't a lebensohl response. I definitely am not expecting 6 clubs but hey I'd be happy for sure.

[rogerclee]

jdonn, on Feb 10 2009, 10:05 AM, said:

rogerclee, on Feb 10 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

kfay, on Feb 10 2009, 09:59 AM, said:

Well we're already screwed on this board most likely. 

I'd totally expect this to be a leb. response from partner.

I bid 3NT.  Maybe we're lucky and they were going to make 2♠.  Maybe we're really lucky and we make.

Why is this lucky, if partner has 6 clubs I have the BEST HAND EVER AND EXPECT THIS TO MAKE WAY MORE THAN 50% OF THE TIME

SEE ABOVE LOL

LOL at you for LOLing for the wrong reason. If partner really does have clubs then he is running because he is weak, and they will usually set up their tricks before we set up ours.

You should LOL at passing because 3♣ is almost never meant as natural, it's always someone who thought we were playing lebensohl!

LOL, yes obviously 3♣ here is lebensohl even though partner forgot, and that is 95% of the reason you should pull.

Still disagree that we are usually going down in 3N opposite even a 14-count with 6 clubs. I was LOLing the hog because if you think 3♣ is not lebensohl, then we have an even better reason to bid 3N now.

[jtfanclub]

OK, so, changing this just a hair...

Your partner is a client. He's a money bridge player, plays the spots off the cards but refuses to play anything fancier than Jacoby 2NT. Doesn't even know what Lebensohl is.

If you are absolutely certain that this is not Lebensohl, would you pass or bid 3NT?

[Hanoi5]

Quote

OK, so, changing this just a hair...

Your partner is a client. He's a money bridge player, plays the spots off the cards but refuses to play anything fancier than Jacoby 2NT. Doesn't even know what Lebensohl is.

If you are absolutely certain that this is not Lebensohl, would you pass or bid 3NT?

3NT. Well, it depends on what 'plays the spots off the cards' means.

[peachy]

I expect partner to have a 1NT opening. Also expect he thought we play lebensohl. If not, he has good long clubs. Either way, 3NT. If he alerted and we didn't have the agreement we play lebensohl, then it gets tricky. But if the FACT is we didn't agree to play lebensohl, then we don't play it.

[MFA]

If someone would bid 3NT after partner has alerted 2NT, then I'll wish him very good luck in the committee. He will need it.

[kfay]

MFA, on Feb 10 2009, 09:04 PM, said:

If someone would bid 3NT after partner has alerted 2NT, then I'll wish him very good luck in the committee. He will need it.

Is this true? God I keep on getting mixed reviews on this subject.

If we didn't agree to play Lebensohl then I don't care if he alerts it or not I can still bid 3NT, right?

[JLOL]

kfay, on Feb 10 2009, 09:10 PM, said:

MFA, on Feb 10 2009, 09:04 PM, said:

If someone would bid 3NT after partner has alerted 2NT, then I'll wish him very good luck in the committee. He will need it.

Is this true? God I keep on getting mixed reviews on this subject.

If we didn't agree to play Lebensohl then I don't care if he alerts it or not I can still bid 3NT, right?

umm no, after the alert you have UI regardless of what your agreement was since you know partner is bidding 3C since he thinks 2N is artificial. Thus if passing 3C is a logical alternative you should pass. Agree with MFA that you will never win this committee, and I would think very little of anyone who actually bid 3N after the alert and then tried to get away with it.

[jdonn]

As strongly as I feel about this, it's definitely true that committees have consistently ruled against the 3NT bidder when this happens (and it has happened a lot.)

[Fluffy]

jtfanclub, on Feb 10 2009, 06:25 PM, said:

Your partner is a client. He's a money bridge player, plays the spots off the cards but refuses to play anything fancier than Jacoby 2NT. Doesn't even know what Lebensohl is.

If you are absolutely certain that this is not Lebensohl, would you pass or bid 3NT?

If I am absolutelly sure it is not lebensohl, with a beginner partner I would bet he took 2NT as minors.

If partner is an experienced player who didn't ever learn conventions, 3♣nat would pass his mind as a stop, and so I stop because his clubs are broke.