[JLOL]

jdonn, on Feb 5 2009, 03:39 PM, said:

RichMor, on Feb 5 2009, 03:31 PM, said:

Yes, NS should get the result for 4♠X down 2.

Yes, EW should get the result for -800.

Seems only right that both pairs get a bad score

If the EW result was due to (I forget the exact wording) a stupid, ridiculous, irrational, wild, gambling action, then NS should not have their score changed. All you can do to them is give some kind of procedural penalty for a bad explanation, as well as for responder's extraneous comment (b. in the original post) if you care to.

This is incorrect. In fact most split rulings are because one pair forgot to play bridge after they were damaged so they keep the score, but the offending side gets their score rolled back since they can't benefit from the damage. The really stupid bid or play might well have not occurred if there hadn't been damage to begin with.

[Fluffy]

Normally whatever score you give to NS is irrelevant since they are not gonna get above average anyway.

Regardless of the laws (wich I doubt should damage them anyway), most TDs would just let them enjoy their success wich encourages them to keep playing.

[Hanoi5]

But in this case I think the 'stupid bid' was 5♦ and so E/W should have that. N/S will be benefitting from the absurdity in East's bidding.

[jdonn]

JLOL, on Feb 5 2009, 03:48 PM, said:

jdonn, on Feb 5 2009, 03:39 PM, said:

RichMor, on Feb 5 2009, 03:31 PM, said:

Yes, NS should get the result for 4♠X down 2.

Yes, EW should get the result for -800.

Seems only right that both pairs get a bad score

If the EW result was due to (I forget the exact wording) a stupid, ridiculous, irrational, wild, gambling action, then NS should not have their score changed. All you can do to them is give some kind of procedural penalty for a bad explanation, as well as for responder's extraneous comment (b. in the original post) if you care to.

This is incorrect. In fact most split rulings are because one pair forgot to play bridge after they were damaged so they keep the score, but the offending side gets their score rolled back since they can't benefit from the damage. The really stupid bid or play might well have not occurred if there hadn't been damage to begin with.

My point is a misexplanation is not automatically damage. If I open 1NT and my partner says 12-14 and it's really 15-17, and LHO does something stupid like overcall 4♥ on xxx Kxxxxx Qx xx and we kill him, and he says he wouldn't have done that if he knew 1NT was 15-17, I keep my score. That's the same to me in this case, there was a misexplanation (or misbid?) without which 5♦X couldn't have occured, but it should never have occured anyway since only someone hopped up on some leafy plant would bid 5♦, so NS benefit since EW stupidity is all that damaged them.

A situation of split scores is different. Say when partner wrongly announces 12-14 the opponents use their system over weak notrumps to reach a normal 4♥ game, and one of them plays it like a doofus and goes down. And say if they knew 1NT was strong they would never have bid, and 1NT would have gone down. That's the split score situation where I get 1NT down and they get 4♥ down.

I think I confused things by (mis)quoting part of the law that leads to split scores when I wasn't trying to refer to them.

[skjaeran]

TimG, on Feb 5 2009, 09:21 PM, said:

skaeran, on Feb 5 2009, 09:19 AM, said:

We've passed throughout and partner doubles 4♠ red vs white.
What on earth do I care for opps explanations here. Partner told me he's beating 4♠, surely I pass.

Coming in with a t/o double now is totally insane - then he'd have doubled 2♠. Obviously opps screwed up somehow, or I'm looking for a new partner, world class or not.

Well, here's the whole quote. Sure sounds to me like you're looking for a new partner if your current partner's judgment on this hand proves incorrect.

Even if partner's judgment on this hand amounts to a colossal brain fart, I like to think that a partnership will survive one of those.

Don't get me wrong then.

If partner made an unsuccessful penallty double, that's definitely no problem. Anyone can mis-evaluate.

However, if he thought he made a t/o double, intending to find a save, that's not closely related to bridge....

[H_KARLUK]

If I understood correct, during auction there were a speech which may affect decision/s.
No matter comes by any side not nice. Also same ethics expected on card play. Just keep silence and let players judge.
Back to bidding, it seems implied that there were kind of a special booklet guidance when to turn penalty and when to remove double.

Sorry, i ve never seen such things in my repertoire. Unusual.