[rogerclee]

H_KARLUK, on Feb 7 2009, 03:27 AM, said:

jdonn, on Feb 7 2009, 12:23 PM, said:

H_KARLUK, on Feb 7 2009, 05:16 AM, said:

If you have a layout suitable to given auction I would like to see it.

AKxxx AKx AKQx J for partner. Just a little better than 3 finesses....

Well, if you believe with such a deal 4th round 3NT is quite normal I have no words sorry.

LOL

[andy_h]

Has anyone ever opened 2C and planned to bid their spades at their next go that were headed by the A8xxx ?

[H_KARLUK]

andy_h, on Feb 7 2009, 01:40 PM, said:

Has anyone ever opened 2C and planned to bid their spades at their next go that were headed by the A8xxx ?

Always length or always suit quality ?

I think length showing bids helps to find 8 cards fits. I do not think always top 2 or 3 required. Same approach is not valid on rebids and responder bids?

Say you have Qxxxx and p has Kxx. Just play for Ax. Then enjoy 4 tricks. It is same when yr side has Qxxx and Kxxx. A matter of positional factor. By luck or if auction and point count gives clues when any of your honour card not covered by Ace and if it is born as a doubleton your side cash rest tricks. There's a chance.

Similarly, say you hold A8xxx and partner holds Qxx. Soon or late such a combination supposed not worths to bid and set as trumps? But still you have a chance to win 4 tricks if Kx favorably distributed. One can still play Ace and low hoping to drop Kx onside or offside. Just try not to capture your high card to your opponents. Otherwise perhaps nothing to do unless you have a chance to complete an elimination or play for thrown in or ruff sluff position. Who knows elopement and a controlled loser on loser also available with such 8 cards trumps fits.

You might knew well; there are plain and constructive losers. Such combinations may serve th purpose of promoting eventual winners in an unexpected time.

[gwnn]

lol...

[FrancesHinden]

jdonn, on Feb 6 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

Come on, full hand please.

This is gnasher's thread really, all we had to do was defend 5S.

---

gnasher & partner (I can't remember who was who) bid

2C - 2D
2S - 3C
3D - 3S
3NT - 5S
6C - 6S
6NT - P

This may have been a bit awkward on a diamond lead, but I'm fairly certain that wasn't the lead, as the play didn't take very long.

5S went off when declarer won the diamond lead in hand, and tried to cash the KQ of clubs, ruffed. Heart return to the jack and king, club ruffed & over-ruffed. He could still have made by ruffing a diamond in dummy, but instead hoped that West was following to three rounds of hearts and continue with two trumps in dummy, ace of clubs, queen of hearts, ruffed for one off.

This wasn't the best available line.

[jdonn]

H_KARLUK, on Feb 7 2009, 05:27 AM, said:

jdonn, on Feb 7 2009, 12:23 PM, said:

H_KARLUK, on Feb 7 2009, 05:16 AM, said:

If you have a layout suitable to given auction I would like to see it.

AKxxx AKx AKQx J for partner. Just a little better than 3 finesses....

Well, if you believe with such a deal 4th round 3NT is quite normal I have no words sorry.

Hmmm. 24 count with 5 spades 4 diamonds and a double heart stopper. Let's take those in order.

I open 2♣. 24 count, check.
I bid 2♠, 5 spades, check.
I bid 3♦, 4 diamonds, check.
I bid 3NT when hearts are the unbid suit, double heart stopper, check.

Sign me up!

[orlam]

andy_h, on Feb 7 2009, 06:40 AM, said:

Has anyone ever opened 2C and planned to bid their spades at their next go that were headed by the A8xxx ?

What would you open and rebid with AK832 AJ AKJxx A?
I thought once you have 23 hcp or more you always have to open 2♣, and then if you have shape you just have to bid it out.

(I am not sure I have done it, though, the odds of getting an unbalanced 23+ hcp hand with exactly AK8xx of spades are not very high.)

[gnasher]

andy_h, on Feb 7 2009, 12:40 PM, said:

Has anyone ever opened 2C and planned to bid their spades at their next go that were headed by the A8xxx ?

I certainly would do, given a good enough hand. What else am I supposed to do with A8xxx AK AKQxx A ?

That's not to say I'd do it with A8654 AJ AKJ6 KQ, which is a long way from being a game-force.

[Phil]

jdonn, on Feb 7 2009, 02:03 AM, said:

Phil, on Feb 7 2009, 01:49 AM, said:

Wow, no 10's and one 9. Quite generous of you.

And a complete minimum. And all 3 finesses losing. And no suit breaking well. And all 3 of partner's bids questionable.

Btw, what 9? I guess you meant no 10s and no 9s and one 8.

The curse of clubs is in the North hand. A couple of 8's too.

[Winstonm]

JLOL, on Feb 4 2009, 07:47 PM, said:

First instinct was 4N, it actually seemed quite normal, but I am really worried 6S is the right spot (AKTxx Ax AKQx Kx etc) and we won't get there if I bid 4N. Maybe partner will bid 5N and pass 6S though with that... I don't really see what else I can do anyways.

Actually reconsidering it maybe I am supposed to just drive to slam? I think that's too much though... so back to 4N heh.

Actually I have changed my mind again, I think it's not worth a slam force but I like 5S. It gives us a presumably safe out, and makes sure we get to spades when it's right. Good problem.

It is a good problem and the QJ of spades make it such - it could well be hard for partner to decide AK109x is good enough over a 5S call.

I think part of the problem is the 3C bid. My personal idea is that in a 2C auction, responder should remain passive unless he has something rather extrodinary to point out about his hand. Shape - or semi-shape is important, and by that I mean do you hold at least 2 cards in every suit. If so, I like a 2N continuation to show the this balanced/semi-balanced feature.

Now, the auction proceeds 2C-2D-2S-2N-3D-

Opener knows responder holds at least 2-card spade support, so the 3D bid strongly implies only 5 spades. Responder can now show different types of spade holdings with 3S/3N/4S/5S.

[H_KARLUK]

jdonn, on Feb 7 2009, 07:45 PM, said:

H_KARLUK, on Feb 7 2009, 05:27 AM, said:

jdonn, on Feb 7 2009, 12:23 PM, said:

H_KARLUK, on Feb 7 2009, 05:16 AM, said:

If you have a layout suitable to given auction I would like to see it.

AKxxx AKx AKQx J for partner. Just a little better than 3 finesses....

Well, if you believe with such a deal 4th round 3NT is quite normal I have no words sorry.

Hmmm. 24 count with 5 spades 4 diamonds and a double heart stopper. Let's take those in order.

I open 2♣. 24 count, check.
I bid 2♠, 5 spades, check.
I bid 3♦, 4 diamonds, check.
I bid 3NT when hearts are the unbid suit, double heart stopper, check.

Sign me up!

Keep it up please

3 suits headed by AK in yr sample. Mine 3 finesses are off. So when we count factors they are even.

You named "a little better". But life is sometimes merciless. Mostly midgets/freaks in suits. I can't wait to find cards each time control top 2 at each suit or best cards without a small problem.

I dislike to give false shape. With 5-3-4-1 I believe still room for 4♥ by your sample while I liked delayed 3♠ support. If th matter is partner may misread my shape as 5-4-4-0 same trouble stands as "balanced" while there were unbalanced maximum. I do not think big deal worrying about a card when our side have powerty. I am cautious about telling length and shapes.

Don't you open 2♣ with unbalanced 20/22+?

I open. Tho I do not remember sometimes you and me assigned or not on same rooms for Vugraph events perhaps you also watched such styles by notable experts. I think 24 on partnership cards not so bad. Partner may pass with 4 hcp to any opening except 2♣ artificial GF.

I thank you for exchanging ideas. I read your thoughts. Please do not get me wrong like "hey, this guy tries to teach me". In my culture there's an adage : Every brave has a style to eat yoghurt

p.s.

1) 2♣>2♦; 2♠> what's yr 2nd negative pls? --"if" u play so .
2) To me further steps of 2♣ quite different in North America and at least in France and Turkey. Do you have any idea why?

[rogerclee]

H_KARLUK, on Feb 7 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

jdonn, on Feb 7 2009, 07:45 PM, said:

H_KARLUK, on Feb 7 2009, 05:27 AM, said:

jdonn, on Feb 7 2009, 12:23 PM, said:

H_KARLUK, on Feb 7 2009, 05:16 AM, said:

If you have a layout suitable to given auction I would like to see it.

AKxxx AKx AKQx J for partner. Just a little better than 3 finesses....

Well, if you believe with such a deal 4th round 3NT is quite normal I have no words sorry.

Hmmm. 24 count with 5 spades 4 diamonds and a double heart stopper. Let's take those in order.

I open 2♣. 24 count, check.
I bid 2♠, 5 spades, check.
I bid 3♦, 4 diamonds, check.
I bid 3NT when hearts are the unbid suit, double heart stopper, check.

Sign me up!

Keep it up please

3 suits headed by AK in yr sample. Mine 3 finesses are off. So when we count factors they are even.

You named "a little better". But life is sometimes merciless. Mostly midgets/freaks in suits. I can't wait to find cards each time control top 2 at each suit or best cards without a small problem.

I dislike to give false shape. With 5-3-4-1 I believe still room for 4♥ by your sample while I liked delayed 3♠ support. If th matter is partner may misread my shape as 5-4-4-0 same trouble stands as "balanced" while there were unbalanced maximum. I do not think big deal worrying about a card when our side have powerty. I am cautious about telling length and shapes.

Don't you open 2♣ with unbalanced 20/22+?

I open. Tho I do not remember sometimes you and me assigned or not on same rooms for Vugraph events perhaps you also watched such styles by notable experts. I think 24 on partnership cards not so bad. Partner may pass with 4 hcp to any opening except 2♣ artificial GF.

I thank you for exchanging ideas. I read your thoughts. Please do not get me wrong like "hey, this guy tries to teach me". In my culture there's an adage : Every brave has a style to eat yoghurt

p.s.

1) 2♣>2♦; 2♠> what's yr 2nd negative pls? --"if" u play so .
2) To me further steps of 2♣ quite different in North America and at least in France and Turkey. Do you have any idea why?

SKFSDLKMDFSMKLSFFKLMSWEFKLMEFWKLMDFSKLMDFSLKMDSFKLMDFSKLMDFSKLMDSFLKMDFSMKLDFSKLMDFSKLMDSFKLDFLSKDFSKLMDFSKLDFSKMLDFSKLMDFSKLMDSFKLMDFSKLMKLMFSDFLMSKDSFKLMQWKLMDFKLMSFKLM

The above paragraph made more sense than what you wrote.

[H_KARLUK]

For folks who self-enjoy :

I am afraid exaggerated laugh to everything may indicate bi polar disorders. Try to avoid paying high bills for therapists But no worries, it is scientifically classified as temporary cases. Lithium pills/tablets with reasonable dose is th solution mostly. Let's not live in edges and instead present stronger objective evidences for counter hypothesis with bridge cards.

I hope I am at correct address to read technical views about bridge issues. No to hypocrite rants. Yes to fairplay with politeness !

[JLOL]

Nice auction by gnasher and his pard imo.

[jdonn]

JLOL, on Feb 7 2009, 08:19 PM, said:

Nice auction by gnasher and his pard imo.

I think it was mostly good but I don't like the 6♠ bid. I think north has emphasized spades enough at that point and once his partner has suggested something else then north should choose 6NT because he has heart help.

[Winstonm]

Quote

That's not to say I'd do it with A8654 AJ AKJ6 KQ, which is a long way from being a game-force.

Some, including me, would say this is not a 2C opener, either.

[Winstonm]

JLOL, on Feb 7 2009, 08:19 PM, said:

Nice auction by gnasher and his pard imo.

Justin,

To me the auction had a little bit of feeling of stumbling about and landing on one's feet to it. I sense that from 3S on there wasn't a definition of meanings.

I believe the world level competition should have a better understanding/agreement/system.

Perhaps you disagree.

[jdonn]

Winstonm, on Feb 7 2009, 10:36 PM, said:

I sense that from 3S on there wasn't a definition of meanings.

Why do you sense that?

3NT: I have no significant unshown extras and hearts are well (enough) stopped.
5♠: I have a slam invitation with a very good doubleton spade.
6♣: I accept your invitation and, to the extent it can be consistent with my previous bidding, believe this might be the best slam.
6♠: I don't like 6♣ but I believe this might be the best slam.
6NT: I prefer this contract to 6♠.

I slightly disagree with the judgment to bid 6♠ (and 5♠ but that pertains to style of 2♣ openings), but there seems to have been no confusion about the meaning of any bid and overall it seems like quite a fine auction.

[Winstonm]

jdonn, on Feb 7 2009, 11:16 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Feb 7 2009, 10:36 PM, said:

I sense that from 3S on there wasn't a definition of meanings.

Why do you sense that?

3NT: I have no significant unshown extras and hearts are well (enough) stopped.
5♠: I have a slam invitation with a very good doubleton spade.
6♣: I accept your invitation and, to the extent it can be consistent with my previous bidding, believe this might be the best slam.
6♠: I don't like 6♣ but I believe this might be the best slam.
6NT: I prefer this contract to 6♠.

I slightly disagree with the judgment to bid 6♠ (and 5♠ but that pertains to style of 2♣ openings), but there seems to have been no confusion about the meaning of any bid and overall it seems like quite a fine auction.

I doubt seriously if it was known when it was bid if 3N could have held singleton club.
I doubt if opener knew if over 5S he needed AKxxx, AK10xx, or 3 of the top 5 to bid a spade slam.
I doubt responder knew that 6C was a choice of slams with doubleton honor support and not Kx, or KQ and poorish spades, or if its was a Kx and grand slam try.
I doubt opener knew about doubleton QJ else he would not have bid 6N with only AJ in the unbid.

Quote

overall it seems like quite a fine auction.

I didn't say it was horrible or bad - I said it seemed slightly (or somewhat) muddled. Yes, under the circumtances of the constraints of the auction it was fine.
I do not think this is the maximum method for 2C auctions is all.

I believe part of the problem stems from the initial 3C bid, as I said in an earlier post.

You are free to believe otherwise.

[gnasher]

FrancesHinden, on Feb 7 2009, 06:12 PM, said:

This [6NT] may have been a bit awkward on a diamond lead, but I'm fairly certain that wasn't the lead, as the play didn't take very long.

You can play 6NT quite quickly as long as you cash one club before doing any serious thinking. East's club was the 10, so you overtake the second club and set up four clubs, then test the spades before deciding whether to take a heart finesse.