[benlessard]

Scoring: IMP

---

P------(P)------1D-----(1H)
1NT---(2H)-----???

Playing with an old school KISS partner that surely doesnt play good bad 2Nt.

Is 3C forcing ?

What is your bid ?

[Cascade]

Not forcing for me.

I bid 3♣. This is near maximum.

[rogerclee]

Cascade, on Feb 3 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

I bid 3♣. This is near maximum.

LOL

[the hog]

3C nf for me also.

[Phil]

rogerclee, on Feb 4 2009, 12:05 AM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 3 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

I bid 3♣.  This is near maximum.

LOL

Really? Looks like a near-max to me too.

[rogerclee]

Phil, on Feb 3 2009, 11:00 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Feb 4 2009, 12:05 AM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 3 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

I bid 3♣.  This is near maximum.

LOL

Really? Looks like a near-max to me too.

Wow, you know you have a guaranteed eight card fit and probably a nine card fit in one of the minors, and for this reason, we would always bid 3♣ here on a 5-5 minimum. It is silly to make the same bid that you would short the ace of clubs, you will just miss game routinely if you do this.

You can debate whether or not 3♥ or 4♣ is the better bid, but 3♣ is not a serious option at all, especially since 1N promises values. I would bid 3♥, even though my reaction was to bid 4♣.

[Phil]

rogerclee, on Feb 4 2009, 01:17 AM, said:

Phil, on Feb 3 2009, 11:00 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Feb 4 2009, 12:05 AM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 3 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

I bid 3♣.  This is near maximum.

LOL

Really? Looks like a near-max to me too.

Wow, you know you have a guaranteed eight card fit and probably a nine card fit in one of the minors, and for this reason, we would always bid 3♣ here on a 5-5 minimum. It is silly to make the same bid that you would short the ace of clubs, you will just miss game routinely if you do this.

You can debate whether or not 3♥ or 4♣ is the better bid, but 3♣ is not a serious option at all, especially since 1N promises values. I would bid 3♥, even though my reaction was to bid 4♣.

So over 2♥ we basically have the option of depicting our hand as a minimum 5-5 via 3♣ (because of the known fit), or we can force to game. Nice system.

Aside from us having shortness across from known wasted values. Its a NV game we are pressing for.

I really don't think pard is a favorite to cover two of those four losers if pard chooses to pass 3♣. And we also have the option of advancing 3♦ to four if we choose.

Seriously, this isn't a problem since I play G/B here.

But that's just me.

[orlam]

Phil, on Feb 4 2009, 01:34 AM, said:

rogerclee, on Feb 4 2009, 01:17 AM, said:

Phil, on Feb 3 2009, 11:00 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Feb 4 2009, 12:05 AM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 3 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

I bid 3♣.  This is near maximum.

LOL

Really? Looks like a near-max to me too.

Wow, you know you have a guaranteed eight card fit and probably a nine card fit in one of the minors, and for this reason, we would always bid 3♣ here on a 5-5 minimum. It is silly to make the same bid that you would short the ace of clubs, you will just miss game routinely if you do this.

You can debate whether or not 3♥ or 4♣ is the better bid, but 3♣ is not a serious option at all, especially since 1N promises values. I would bid 3♥, even though my reaction was to bid 4♣.

So over 2♥ we basically have the option of depicting our hand as a minimum 5-5 via 3♣ (because of the known fit), or we can force to game. Nice system.

Isn't that pretty common in competitive auctions at the 3-level?

[mike777]

benlessard, on Feb 3 2009, 11:44 PM, said:

Dealer: North Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ Jx ♥ x ♦ AKQTx ♣ AQTxx

P------(P)------1D-----(1H)
1NT---(2H)-----???

Playing with an old school KISS partner that surely doesnt play good bad 2Nt.

Is 3C forcing ?

What is your bid ?

3c...whatever it means

1d can be soooooo nothing....

[Codo]

3 ♣

I disagree that we have a nine card fit for certain.
I would bet partner has 4 Spades more often then not.
They did never mentioned spades and pd may well prefer to conceal a four card spade suit when he is balanced and has most of his values in hearts.

Give pd something like xxxx,KJxx,xx, Kxx. Will he always double?
What about xxxx,AQJ,xxx,xxx?

[JLOL]

3H. I don't understand how we can make a non forcing and non forward going bid after partner has bid 1N freely.

[gnasher]

I don't play Good-Bad here (or anywhere else, for that matter), because I don't want my partner to have to guess what I've got after
P-----(P)------1D-----(1H)
1NT---(2H)-----2NT----(3H)

Obviously, on this occasion I'd like to be playing Good-Bad, but I don't have a problem with bidding 3♣. Partner is aware that this has a wide range, so on some of the hands where we have game on he will move. We'll still miss game opposite Qxx Kxxx xxx Kxx, but that's the price we pay for being able to compete effectively on partscore hands.

[gnasher]

JLOL, on Feb 4 2009, 10:08 AM, said:

3H. I don't understand how we can make a non forcing and non forward going bid after partner has bid 1N freely.

Does that mean that you think 1NT in competition promises more than it does in an uncontested auction?

[rogerclee]

gnasher, on Feb 4 2009, 02:26 AM, said:

JLOL, on Feb 4 2009, 10:08 AM, said:

3H. I don't understand how we can make a non forcing and non forward going bid after partner has bid 1N freely.

Does that mean that you think 1NT in competition promises more than it does in an uncontested auction?

Yes, absolutely! To me, this shows about 8-10. I don't know how it is in England (or other places), but this is very standard in America.

[Cascade]

rogerclee, on Feb 4 2009, 10:27 PM, said:

gnasher, on Feb 4 2009, 02:26 AM, said:

JLOL, on Feb 4 2009, 10:08 AM, said:

3H. I don't understand how we can make a non forcing and non forward going bid after partner has bid 1N freely.

Does that mean that you think 1NT in competition promises more than it does in an uncontested auction?

Yes, absolutely! To me, this shows about 8-10. I don't know how it is in England (or other places), but this is very standard in America.

Interesting.

I would bid 1NT on almost any hand that I would bid 1NT on without the interference provided that I have a heart stopper.

Occasionally with very soft cards and a near minimum I might pass with length (4+) in hearts.

[Gerben42]

Not forcing, as for the rule of 40 (HCP of all the 4 players adds up to 40). If you have a shapely monster, bid 4♣. If opps are kidding and you have the whole deck, Dbl or cuebid.

[benlessard]

Im pretty sure that in standard 3C is NF and 100% sure that it SHOULD be NF (unless reverse GB 2Nt) . My first instinct was to bid 3H. Because 5m may easily be better than 3Nt & jumping to 4C may lead to bad slam or bad 5m. However i figured that if i bid clubs later partner may take it as a cue bid since I didnt bid 3C (possibly forcing) also i figured to if RHO has good spades he will glady X 3H as a lightner type bid.

So ive just bid a lazy 3Nt and of course it had no play and 5C was laydown.

Those who bid 3C or 4C will get to the right spot too but im sure 3H is a way better bid.

[Phil]

rogerclee, on Feb 4 2009, 04:27 AM, said:

gnasher, on Feb 4 2009, 02:26 AM, said:

JLOL, on Feb 4 2009, 10:08 AM, said:

3H. I don't understand how we can make a non forcing and non forward going bid after partner has bid 1N freely.

Does that mean that you think 1NT in competition promises more than it does in an uncontested auction?

Yes, absolutely! To me, this shows about 8-10. I don't know how it is in England (or other places), but this is very standard in America.

Maybe in Arcadia

I didn't think anyone played a free 1N as really that much stronger than a non-contested 1N. Although we aren't bidding it on a 5 count, but I think 8-10 is an overbid.

[gwnn]

I like 8-11 more than 8-10, and with the "right" 12 count sometimes

[helene_t]

gwnn, on Feb 4 2009, 05:21 PM, said:

I like 8-11 more than 8-10, and with the "right" 12 count sometimes

But we play 15-17 1NT. So should opener bid on with a balanced 14, or shouldn't he? I think 1NT should mean "if you have a balanced 12-14 I am happy to play 1NT but have no game interest".