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Alerting 1NT? ?do you alert if you have a 5card major

#1 User is offline   Kingside 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 03:54

I recently had a balanced 15 pt hand with a 5 card !H suit headed by J. I decided to open 1NT. (ACBL SAYC system booklet says you can open 1NT with a 5 card major. My RHO ( expert?) took exception and said I should have alerted. Is he right?
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#2 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 03:58

He was wrong, this is not alertable in any way.
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#3 User is offline   JLOL 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 04:09

OMG how can you open 1N with 5 hearts?!?!?! What if you miss an eight card heart fit?!
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#4 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 06:48

No. If you have made specific agreements with your partner about what to do with 5M332, 5m4M22 and 6m322 with 15-17 points, opps are entitled to know but no matter whether your agreements is to always, never or sometimes open 1NT with those hands, it is not alertable.

Under ACBL rules, a 1NT opening which by agreement can include a singleton, must be alerted, unless the singleton must always be a king or an ace. Other jurisdictions are not (AFAIK) explicit about this but I think it makes sense to follow the same principle there as well.
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#5 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 06:54

At one time on the ACBL convention card in the NT range portion a line stated "5 card major common". Then similar to what happened the Mens Pairs, the league was involved in class action lawsuit from the minors, the result being that line was stricken from the convention card face forever. I shudder to thinnk what your expert rho would have done if you ever had a 6 card suit, or even worse a singleton, bet the fan would spread it around had that took place.
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#6 User is offline   keylime 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 07:13

Frankly, your RHO is ticked they misdefended aren't they?
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#7 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 07:40

mcphee, on Jan 29 2009, 07:54 AM, said:

At one time on the ACBL convention card in the NT range portion a line stated "5 card major common".

No, everybody opens 1NT with 5 card majors, and there still is a box to check on the ACBL convention card. You are even allowed to open it with a singleton as long as you don't do it regularly or have an agreement about opening it with a singleton. Most 2=3=2=6 15 counts are opened 1NT, so are most 3=5=3=2 15 counts, I'm not sure about other NBOs, but in the ACBL this is most certainly not alertable.
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#8 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 07:49

I know a pair who will frequently open 1NT even with a 6 card Major, and sometimes with a 7card Major as well...lol
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#9 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 09:10

I disagree with your RHO, and his profile.
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#10 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 10:02

andy_h, on Jan 29 2009, 08:49 AM, said:

I know a pair who will frequently open 1NT even with a 6 card Major, and sometimes with a 7card Major as well...lol

With 3=7=0=3 and 3♥ in as ♦? :P
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Posted 2009-January-29, 10:51

In ACBL competition, all 1NT openers require an announcement as to range. There are no restrictions on opening 1NT with a 5 card major, and absolutely no requirements to alert it.
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#12 User is offline   Lobowolf 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 11:13

I think you could almost add in the BBO self-rating guidelines for "expert" something like: "Does not 'take exception' when people open 1NT with a 5-card major."
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#13 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 11:16

Your RHO was a) not an expert and :P wrong.
Had he asked either before the round or during his turn about your 1NT opening style, something like "Do you allow 5-card major in 1NT opening and if Yes, under what conditions" then you need to answer that question in detail if you had ever discussed it with your partner. Not alertable still, even if discussed.
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#14 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 18:00

mtvesuvius, on Jan 30 2009, 02:02 AM, said:

andy_h, on Jan 29 2009, 08:49 AM, said:

I know a pair who will frequently open 1NT even with a 6 card Major, and sometimes with a 7card Major as well...lol

With 3=7=0=3 and 3♥ in as ♦? :P

No, I was serious lol It's their style and they believe in it pretty firmly.
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#15 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-January-29, 18:06

andy_h, on Jan 29 2009, 07:00 PM, said:

mtvesuvius, on Jan 30 2009, 02:02 AM, said:

andy_h, on Jan 29 2009, 08:49 AM, said:

I know a pair who will frequently open 1NT even with a 6 card Major, and sometimes with a 7card Major as well...lol

With 3=7=0=3 and 3♥ in as ♦? :P

No, I was serious lol It's their style and they believe in it pretty firmly.

They believe in getting bad boards firmly? Wow! :D
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#16 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2009-January-30, 02:28

mtvesuvius, on Jan 29 2009, 07:06 PM, said:

andy_h, on Jan 29 2009, 07:00 PM, said:

mtvesuvius, on Jan 30 2009, 02:02 AM, said:

andy_h, on Jan 29 2009, 08:49 AM, said:

I know a pair who will frequently open 1NT even with a 6 card Major, and sometimes with a 7card Major as well...lol

With 3=7=0=3 and 3♥ in as ♦? :)

No, I was serious lol It's their style and they believe in it pretty firmly.

They believe in getting bad boards firmly? Wow! :D

I think I know the pair andy's talking about- it's all about whether the hand 'looks no-trumpy' to them.

Kx KJxxxxx Kx AQ might be an example. (Honors in doubleton suits, etc). 7-2-2-2's often play better in NT than in a suit.
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#17 User is offline   Kingside 

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Posted 2009-January-30, 03:19

Thanks everyone for your replies. The answers seem unanimous.
I still find over 50% of "experts" aren't !
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#18 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2009-January-30, 04:44

Hi,

the question as always is, under which regulation did you play.

In Germany you have to alert 1 NT, if the hand can be systemic
with an 5 card major.

With kind regards
Marlowe
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Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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