[ehhh]

Weak 2 bids have their hcp ranges defined as a rule (ie 5-10).
But what about weak 3 bids.
Can you open (or overcall) a weak 3 with hands as light as:
Qxxxxxx Jxx xx x

[inquiry]

Three, you are only bidding three? lol. I think you can preempt at three/four/five/six level on whatever you think you can afford. I know I do.

My general rules for preempts at three + level, is not vul versus vul, in first or third seat, I might go down five tricks if doubled. In second seat, I am down 3 at most.

Not vul versus not vul, my 2nd seat is the same (down 3), my first/second seat could be down 4.

Vul versus vul, I am down two in the first three suits if doubled (at most)

Vul versus nonvul, my preempts are essentially to make/down one.

So as you can see from this, your 7♠ hand might get me to bid even 4♠ in some seats when not vul, if I thought I could win 5♠ tricks...and surely I would bid at least 3♠ when not vul versus vul in first or third seat.

Ben

[pbleighton]

I pretty much agree with Ben - no surprise - he recommended Robson-Segal's Partnership Bidding and I have never been the same since

I will make some additional points:
1) The implication of what he says is that NV in the 3rd and 5th seats you can open a card short - 5 cards at the 2 level, 6 at the 3 level, etc.
2) I will also swing a bit more (4 down) NV vs NV in the 2nd seat
3) 3rd seat NV I will almost never pass if I have 5+ D/H/S or 6+ clubs - in fact at favorable I will open 3C with 5 clubs.
4) In the 3rd seat vul vs vul, 3 down.
5) The sort of hands to pass with are those with terrible suits and lots of defense. In your example, your suit is bad, but your hand is worse - a "good" hand to preempt with. OTOH:
xxxxxxx-Ax-Axx-x
should be passed IMO.
6) With a pickup partner, play fairly conservative -down 2 vul, down 3 NV in 1/2 (maybe stretch to 4 in 1st seat), and a bit crazy NV in the 3rd seat. If you don't, when you open very light he/she will raise you too aggressively, and blame you (rightly) for the consequences.

Peter

[Fluffy]

My style is a bit different, but that is not the qestion, we have a small problem about such openings here:

Our federation considers that in regular pools, (I mean 1 day tourneys), no system is allowed to open regulary with less than 10 HCP by 1X (else it would be considered heavy artificial), and therefore I strongly beleive they would do same with ultra weak preemtives if you make them regulary if they haven´t done so yet.

Yes, I know this is a game about tricks, not about points, and that those rules are pointless, supose that is what happens when 80% of your players are above 55 years old :-(.

That´s why I don´t even wanna think about learning ZAR points or whatever else. what is the point if I cannot play them?

[Fluffy]

conenctiopn problems maded me post a bit too much, sorry

[Free]

As far as I know, there aren't even rules which keep you from opening at any level above the 1-level (not in my region anyway). You can use whatever rules you want. Basic rules are (5)6-10 for a classic weak-2, that's for sure, but higher level openings are usually about the same I think, with longer suit. Anyway, if you open at 3-level or higher, it's usually destructive bidding when NV, and not many rules are applied, certainly not according to HCP. Distribution is more important.

[Trpltrbl]

You can open at all levels with whatever you want. I like to play in first or second seat, sound weak 2's, after that I will do anything.

Mike

[mishovnbg]

Type of preempts you play depend of your style - strategy and tactics. I prefer constructive partnership friendly one from 1st/2nd position and high destructive 3th. My preempt 1st/2nd pos at 3th level any vul mean 6+suit with 2TH and deny side A/K. This help to p for right count of tricks on NT contract. After pass by my p, my preempt means: I did max possible preempt p, counting your support and average hcp as useful for me p, so to continue bidding you need to surprise me p like 4 cards fit and side singleton/void.
Misho

[EarlPurple]

Fluffy, on Apr 21 2004, 10:17 PM, said:

My style is a bit different, but that is not the question, we have a small problem about such openings here:

Our federation considers that in regular pools, (I mean 1 day tourneys), no system is allowed to open regulary with less than 10 HCP by 1X (else it would be considered heavy artificial), and therefore I strongly beleive they would do same with ultra weak preemtives if you make them regulary if they haven´t done so yet.

Yes, I know this is a game about tricks, not about points, and that those rules are pointless, supose that is what happens when 80% of your players are above 55 years old :-(.

That´s why I don´t even wanna think about learning ZAR points or whatever else. what is the point if I cannot play them?

Your federation is out to protect newbies.

If I open 3♠ or 4♠ with that hand I am taking a risk - I might go down 1100 when they can only make game. Why shouldn't I take a risk? If it's match-point pairs (and even more so IMP pairs) then my risk is going to affect the results of the room, not only because I am possibly giving my opps a top / big swing but also because the bad result will cause others sitting in the other seats to lose as a result.

If this is teams of 4, then I don't see any problem. Presumably the opps will have my system notes and will know we open pre-empts on this kind of hand and will be prepared for it with a defence. Similarly if we open light 1-bids. And the only pair that can be harmed as a result if it turns out badly is our team-mates.

[Flame]

The rule of the two level is just a rule that made by some people to get better partnership, its not that playing weak two as 8-11 or 7-9 or 7-12 or 3-10 or 3-8 would be any less effective, its just a matter of partnership understadning, the same is true about the 3 level you need some guidlines. the rule you know is what your teacher or mentor or people around you play for the 2 level, this doesnt mean that the next person you would meet over BBO will play the same way.

[Fouad]

according to the law of total tricks .. and if life is normal when u hold 7 cards then the other 3 hands ( pd and opp ) each of them will carry 2 cards ....so if u bid 3 holding 9 cards trump u and ur pd ...you r in a very safe position ...... but take care to not hold outside honours ... so with qxxxxxx and nothing more ...do not worry and open 3 .......... but with qxxxxxx and outside A or K do not open