[inquiry]

There is no right or wrong bid, I was just worried how different people play this. If you play 3♠ as a reverse with ♠, feel free to skip this question.

Scoring: IMP

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    North   East    South
        1♦      Pass    2♣      
Pass    3♠!     Pass    ?     

2♣ was inverted minor suit raise, you where showing a good hand
3♠ shows a splinter bid - with singleton or void in ♠.

Ben

[the hog]

Not 3N. I have good controls and a D fit. I bid 4C either minorwood or asking for cues, depending on partnership agreement. In present partnership it would be minorwood - I can later find out about red Kings. The grand is very good opposite :

x
xxx
AKJxx
AQxx

or similar.

Ron

[flytoox]

inquiry, on Mar 5 2004, 04:28 AM, said:

There is no right or wrong bid, I was just worried how different people play this. If you play 3♠ as a reverse with ♠, feel free to skip this question.

Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ AT ♥ A64 ♦ Q96 ♣ KJT42

    North   East    South
        1♦      Pass    2♣      
Pass    3♠!     Pass   ?    

2♣ was inverted minor suit raise, you where showing a good hand
3♠ shows a splinter bid - with singleton or void in ♠.

Ben

with pickup pd without discussion, i would simply bid 6c. what is 4c? is it forcing, or passable denying s stopper? what 4N mean? if it is rkc, i will use it. Is 4d forcing? If yes, it is a good choice too. Just too many good choice.

[Free]

4♣ minorwood. Controls aren't very easy to bid, except if I bid 4♥, denying a ♦ stopper, but then we are already pretty high. (perhaps 4♦ minorwood is more interesting to find out about slam, unless you have other ways to ask for ♦K and/or ♥K)

I think you should investigate grand, and not give up on 6♣ too easy.

[inquiry]

[quote name='flytoox' date='Mar 5 2004, 06:31 AM'] [quote name='inquiry' date='Mar 5 2004, 04:28 AM'] with pickup pd without discussion, i would simply bid 6c. what is 4c? is it forcing, or passable denying s stopper? what 4N mean? if it is rkc, i will use it. Is 4d forcing? If yes, it is a good choice too. Just too many good choice. [/quote]
With a pickup partner, 4[cl] would be too risky, too big a chance for a misbid... But the question is really more for what is the best treatment, and the assumption is you are playing with your favorite, most experienced partner (2/1 GF of course). First, I play 1m-2m as game force, so I have the luxury of using 4m here as minorwood. But many would play 4[cl] as wasted hand opposite [sp] splintre and willing to signoff... so if 4[cl] is not minorwood... .would they play 4[di] as minorwood or 4NT as blackwood (and if 4 either minor is minorwood, then 4NT is quantative).

The next question is would you minorwood or would you cue-bid you [he] control pointing a finger of doom at [di]s? Your partner would then need a [di] control to move towards slam.

Ben

[luis]

4c forward going, I like this hand.

[mishovnbg]

Spoiler

------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all!

Spoiler

------

Splinter is need as try, not as force to slam. By splinter my partner told to me: "If you have no more hcp, but nothing wasted in ♠, we must continue to investigate slam". I have a good hand, but ♠A is bad, despite still will make a trick, because it will not be combined with values in long suit. If I have ♦A, instead of ♠A my next bid will be RKCB. The hand of which I am afraid of is:

Scoring: IMP

---

Spoiler

------

Can I investigate it? The answer is "NO", because is impossible to find by natural bidding (unlike spiral scan, hehe) such thing like J♦ or J♥... I will bid 6♣ directly here, showing 3KC and enough good trumps, because in my opinion without ♦ control my p will not have splinter, but 2♥ rebid probably.

Spoiler

------------------------------------------------------------

Misho

[inquiry]

This was a hand from an abalucy event. Most people with the hand posted responded to 1♣ (and the occassional 1♦) opening bid with a leap to 3NT. Several however raises 1♣ to 2♣'s. and two of their partners leaped to 3♠ splinter. One signed off in 3NT, the other cue-bid 4♥ and bid the excellent slam on momentum after that. Only two pairs got to slam...

North held...

---

[flytoox]

inquiry, on Mar 5 2004, 01:26 PM, said:

With a pickup partner, 4♣ would be too risky, too big a chance for a misbid... But the question is really more for what is the best treatment, and the assumption is you are playing with your favorite, most experienced partner (2/1 GF of course). First, I play 1m-2m as game force, so I have the luxury of using 4m here as minorwood. But many would play 4♣ as wasted hand opposite ♠ splintre and willing to signoff... so if 4♣ is not minorwood... .would they play 4♦ as minorwood or 4NT as blackwood (and if 4 either minor is minorwood, then 4NT is quantative).

The next question is would you minorwood or would you cue-bid you ♥ control pointing a finger of doom at ♦s? Your partner would then need a ♦ control to move towards slam.

Ben

I think 4c should be denying s stopper rather than showing waste on spade. Cuebid 4H is a good choice. I dont mind to let pd to take innitiative with this hand. If he wants to ask sth, i will cooperate.

[luis]

[quote name='inquiry' date='Mar 5 2004, 01:26 PM'] [quote name='flytoox' date='Mar 5 2004, 06:31 AM'] [quote name='inquiry' date='Mar 5 2004, 04:28 AM'] with pickup pd without discussion, i would simply bid 6c. what is 4c? is it forcing, or passable denying s stopper? what 4N mean? if it is rkc, i will use it. Is 4d forcing? If yes, it is a good choice too. Just too many good choice. [/QUOTE]
With a pickup partner, 4[cl] would be too risky, too big a chance for a misbid... But the question is really more for what is the best treatment, and the assumption is you are playing with your favorite, most experienced partner (2/1 GF of course). First, I play 1m-2m as game force, so I have the luxury of using 4m here as minorwood. But many would play 4[cl] as wasted hand opposite [sp] splintre and willing to signoff... so if 4[cl] is not minorwood... .would they play 4[di] as minorwood or 4NT as blackwood (and if 4 either minor is minorwood, then 4NT is quantative).

The next question is would you minorwood or would you cue-bid you [he] control pointing a finger of doom at [di]s? Your partner would then need a [di] control to move towards slam.

Ben [/quote]
Hi Ben,

Let's take your questions:

I don't think 4c is dangerous. If you don't want to play 3NT you can just jump to 5c without slam interest. Playing 4m to play doesn't make sense, it's better to bid game in the minor and go down 1 reserving 4m to investigate slamish hands.

When 4c is not minorwood I think that 4N as RKCB in clubs is logical. The only logic option is to play 4d kickback and 4NT as quantittative but imho a 4NT bid should always be RKCB when pd has just splintered.

I don't think that 4h is a good bid, 4c is better to see if pd can cuebid 4d, if he can then we can ask for keycards with 4NT. The player who splinters shouldn't be the player asking for keycards because the other player is better placed to make a decision.

Luis

[Trpltrbl]

4♣ either minorwood, if you are smart enough to use that, or just plain forcing and get there by cuebidding, if pd passes, he'll be spending a lot of time at pdshipdesk looking for new pd.

Mike

[cwiggins]

---

Is slam a good proposition?

You have 5 club tricks, 1 spade ruff, 2 hearts, 1 spade, and 1 diamond for 10 tricks.

You have a losing heart that needs to go someplace, so I think you need a total of three diamond winners: Ace plus two more.

How easy is that?

If diamaonds are 5-1 with a singleton K, you can make by playing the ace and acting accordingly. 1/6 of 15%--maybe 1%?

If the diamaonds are 3-3 and if the K is in the left hand side, you make. Half of 36% is 18%.

If the diamonds are 4-2, you make if a doubleton jack or a doubleton KJ. That is 1/3+ of 48%, say 16-20%.

This adds up to 35-39%.

What am I missing?

[gumps]

cwiggins, on Mar 7 2004, 07:13 PM, said:

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ A10 ♥ A64 ♦ Q96 ♣ KJ1042 ♠ 7 ♥ K92 ♦ A1075 ♣ AQ873

Is slam a good proposition?

You have 5 club tricks, 1 spade ruff, 2 hearts, 1 spade, and 1 diamond for 10 tricks.

You have a losing heart that needs to go someplace, so I think you need a total of three diamond winners: Ace plus two more. 

How easy is that? 

If diamonds are 5-1 with a singleton K, you can make by playing the ace and acting accordingly.  1/6 of 15%--maybe 1%?

If the diamaonds are 3-3 and if the K is in the left hand side, you make.  Half of 36% is 18%.

If the diamonds are 4-2, you make if a doubleton jack or a doubleton KJ.  That is 1/3+ of 48%, say 16-20%.

This adds up to 35-39%.

What am I missing?

You are missing that partner should not open 1D on the hand you give! He should open 1C, planning to rebid 1NT after the expected 1S response by partner. I know that in real life the vast majority of 2/1 players open 1D, but I feel strongly that is bad bidding (a common result is playing diamonds in a 4-2 or 4-3 fit instead of clubs or NTs).

Had the auction begun 1C-P-2C-P-3S*, then responder should take the bidding more cautiously because of the red suit losers and the likely wastage in trumps. On the actual auction, responder is entitled to expect that opener holds 5 diamonds most of the time.


Andrew

[luke warm]

i voted 4♣ minorwood

[aisha759]

If only i knew 2/1 i could participate in this debate.... still doesnt look like a good slam to me, even though very tempting (IMHO)

[dogsbreath]

I suspect some inconsistency here, in relation to a thread i had recently about wether or not New Minor was forcing by a passed hand. I was advised that I should be opening 1D with a 2-2-4-5 shape. Clearly in this case (3S bid) opener is not 2-2-4-5, but are we now play 2/1 with minor-suit canape? If p has only 4 D's on this auction we are in difficulties I think... Rgds Dogsbreath

[Shrike]

As others have stated, either 4C minorwood or 4D RKC kickback are nice, and I might use them (for me, 4D is RKCC in this auction). But I think 4H is OK, or 4C natural if 4D is RKCC. In either case it is possible to stop at 4NT.

[Trpltrbl]

Look like a good slam too me, play ♦ for 1 loser and the contract makes. About 56% change, good enough for me. And there might even be some sort of exotic squeeze, but ask Ben about that

Mike

[Fluffy]

gumps, on Mar 26 2004, 05:17 AM, said:

You are missing that partner should not open 1D on the hand you give! He should open 1C, planning to rebid 1NT after the expected 1S response by partner. I know that in real life the vast majority of 2/1 players open 1D, but I feel strongly that is bad bidding (a common result is playing diamonds in a 4-2 or 4-3 fit instead of clubs or NTs).

Andrew

Hi Andrew!

What you are missing is that that hand is the one Ben said partner was holding in the actual hand, when the problem happened.

Opening 1♣ and rebidding 1NT is exactly the kind of thing that makes me leave a table, because it means you and me differ totally in our style .

-If any of you ever plays with me please open 1♦ that hand, ,of it doesn´t really suit yout style, please rebid 2♣, thx