[Flame]

This is part of a full system i tried to invent, its very cool and imo very good too.
Advantage :
1. You get to distinguege between spade hands with high offensive potential, and those with low offensive potential. the High potential (high ODR) include 5+ spades unbalanced, the low potential include 4 spades bal, 4 spade unbalanced, 5 spade balance (5332)
2. You get to open 1sp from 7 hcp up (8 if you think 7 is against regulations)
this is an amazing premptive tool,that will come up freqently (7-12 is more the 50% of the hands), in compatitve partner is in a good position because he know the Total trumps and can estimate the right level to compite regardless the opener hcp.

To use the crazy spade, we need to extende the "diamond spade" discribed earlier to include also 5323 in the 1D opening.
Now the 1♠ is 7-21 5-4 or 6+
I'll demonstrat the structure i like,i'll include only the importent bids, leaving the rest to your choice.
1♠ 1NT = a: 0/10 HCP or b: 15+ HCP
2♣ = 11/14 HCP
2♠ = SO
2nt = ♠ fit

1♠ 1NT
2♣ = 5♠-4♣ 7/16 HCP
2♦ = 5♠-4♦ 7/16 HCP
2♥ = 5♠-4♥ 7/16 HCP
2♠ = 6♠ 7/16 HCP

1♠ 2♣
pass = 5♠- 4♣ 7/12 HCP
2♦ = 5♠-4♦ 7/12 HCP
2♥ = 5♠-4♥ 7/12 HCP
2♠ = 6♠ 7/12 HCP

[mishovnbg]

Ask Luis to send you his own system, version of MOSCITO, with similar ideas about ♠, can be useful for you.
Misho

[Free]

I'm afraid it can't be played in several countries because of the rule of 18... I also think we need more detail about the other openings to make a good judgement if this is a good tool or not.

[Flame]

You should be fine with the 1d for spade as discribed before.
I'll write a more detailed structure later tonight.
the idea i am thinking of is :
1c = no 4 card spade
1d = 4 card spade or 5 card spade 5332.
1h = normal 5 card.
1sp = 5 spade unbalaced 7+
1nt = maybe big NT 20+ any distribution
2d = 6 card diamond.
ill give the response stucture in few hours (30 people are invited here for dinner in 10 minutes)

[mikestar]

Free, on Apr 30 2004, 12:37 PM, said:

I'm afraid it can't be played in several countries because of the rule of 18... 

It can't be played exactly as given in many countries. Rule of 18 would require 9 points minumum for most of the unbalanced spade hands--but the French Bridge Federation, for example, relaxes the requirements to Rule of 16 in third seat which would allow the spade opening on 7 in this seat.

For the ACBL, the minimum would be 8 in all positions. However in the ACBL at the GCC level or the Midchart level the minor openings would require 10 HCP, because they don't promise 3 cards in the bid suit.

Even with the restrictions, you should be able to play anywhere with small modifications. The only place you can't play it that I know of is in a ACBL Limited Convention Chart game (these are always beginner games and you can't even play Precision with a nebulous 1D or Precision 2D.)

[hrothgar]

mikestar, on Apr 30 2004, 08:35 PM, said:

Free, on Apr 30 2004, 12:37 PM, said:

I'm afraid it can't be played in several countries because of the rule of 18... 

It can't be played exactly as given in many countries. Rule of 18 would require 9 points minumum for most of the unbalanced spade hands--but the French Bridge Federation, for example, relaxes the requirements to Rule of 16 in third seat which would allow the spade opening on 7 in this seat.

For the ACBL, the minimum would be 8 in all positions. However in the ACBL at the GCC level or the Midchart level the minor openings would require 10 HCP, because they don't promise 3 cards in the bid suit.

Even with the restrictions, you should be able to play anywhere with small modifications. The only place you can't play it that I know of is in a ACBL Limited Convention Chart game (these are always beginner games and you can't even play Precision with a nebulous 1D or Precision 2D.)

>For the ACBL, the minimum would be 8 in all positions. However in the ACBL at >the GCC level or the Midchart level the minor openings would require 10 HCP, >because they don't promise 3 cards in the bid suit.

The ACBL requires APPROVED defenses for any Midchart method.
The Convention Committee refuses to approve defenses to transfer openings since these are too complicated for plyers to understand.

As an example, the Conventions Committee absolutely refuses to approve a suggested defense to MOSCITO's 1D opening promising 4+ Hearts.

1D promisng 4+ Spades is going to run into exactly the same problem...

[tysen2k]

hrothgar, on Apr 30 2004, 12:42 PM, said:

The ACBL requires APPROVED defenses for any Midchart method.
The Convention Committee refuses to approve defenses to transfer openings since these are too complicated for plyers to understand.

As an example, the Conventions Committee absolutely refuses to approve a suggested defense to MOSCITO's 1D opening promising 4+ Hearts.

I might be wrong, but I think that any 1♣ or 1♦ bid does not need an approved defense as long as it has 10+ HCP since these are bids that are allowed in the GCC. Only bids that are allowed by the mid-chart but not allowed under GCC need the approved defenses.

So you'd run into trouble with 1♥ showing spades, but 1♦ showing hearts or spades should be okay.

[Flame]

hrothgar, on Apr 30 2004, 12:42 PM, said:

The ACBL requires APPROVED defenses for any Midchart method.
The Convention Committee refuses to approve defenses to transfer openings since these are too complicated for plyers to understand.

As an example, the Conventions Committee absolutely refuses to approve a suggested defense to MOSCITO's 1D opening promising 4+ Hearts.

1D promisng 4+ Spades is going to run into exactly the same problem...

Those restrictions are really stupid, they do a very bad job out there.
Their job should be to make sure people wont gain an advantage by playing systems which their opponents arent ready for, this includes restricting any system that makes no real attepmt to be a bridge improvment but rather a tool to annoy the opponents or load up on their memory. But they should not be in the way of real bridge improvments. I think they are narrow minded.

[mikestar]

From the ACBL General Convention Chart:

1. ONE CLUB OR ONE DIAMOND may be used as an all-purpose opening
bid (artificial or natural) promising a minimum of 10 high-card points.


Moscito's 1D showing hearts needs an aprroved defense becuase it has a lower limit below 10 HCP.


Note that I am not defending the ACBL's regulations, just stating what they are to the best of my knowledge.

[Poky]

Flame, on Apr 30 2004, 12:19 PM, said:

Now the 1♠ is 7-21 5-4 or 6+
I'll demonstrate the structure i like,i'll include only the importent bids, leaving the rest to your choice.

I think it is a good idea but it makes the development after 1♣/1♦ openings pretty complex. Any useful idea?

Should after the 1♦ opening the bidding be natural or relay-oriented? Maybe this way:
1♥= 4+♥, natural
1♠= Relay, 10+
1NT= natural, no 4H
2m= 5+m, 6-11, non forcing
2♥= TRF, invitational with 4+♠, 9-11
2♠= to play, 6-9 eith 3+♠

[Flame]

Poky, on May 2 2004, 04:37 AM, said:

Flame, on Apr 30 2004, 12:19 PM, said:

Now the 1♠ is 7-21 5-4 or 6+
I'll demonstrate the structure i like,i'll include only the importent bids, leaving the rest to your choice.

I think it is a good idea but it makes the development after 1♣/1♦ openings pretty complex. Any useful idea?

Should after the 1♦ opening the bidding be natural or relay-oriented? Maybe this way:
1♥= 4+♥, natural
1♠= Relay, 10+
1NT= natural, no 4H
2m= 5+m, 6-11, non forcing
2♥= TRF, invitational with 4+♠, 9-11
2♠= to play, 6-9 eith 3+♠

Hi Poky.
I'm glad you liked it.
Im currently writing a site for the system and will post here when its on, i only began it yesterday and its far from full now, but if you are curious about the responde structure look at the page on the relay link, I realy like this realy i wonder if its my invention or its a common relay type.
The major contest

[Flame]

I just read inside Ben's post about Tsar and found out that "my" relay is a known relay style called skip relay.

[hrothgar]

>1. You get to distinguege between spade hands with high offensive
>potential, and those with low offensive potential. the High potential
>(high ODR) include 5+ spades unbalanced, the low potential include
>4 spades bal, 4 spade unbalanced, 5 spade balance (5332)

Pardon my ignorance, but I am having trouble understanding some of your basic design criteria:

Consider the following two hands:

Hand 1
S AK653
H 7
D KT53
C 876

Hand 2
S KT53
H 7
D AK653
C 876

I am right to assume that you believe that Hand 1 has a high ODR
and hand 2 has a low ODR?

[Flame]

hrothgar, on May 2 2004, 02:49 PM, said:

>1. You get to distinguege between spade hands with high offensive
>potential, and those with low offensive potential. the High potential
>(high ODR) include 5+ spades unbalanced, the low potential include
>4 spades bal, 4 spade unbalanced, 5 spade balance (5332)

Pardon my ignorance, but I am having trouble understanding some of your basic design criteria:

Consider the following two hands:

Hand 1
S AK653
H 7
D KT53
C 876

Hand 2
S KT53
H 7
D AK653
C 876

I am right to assume that you believe that Hand 1 has a high ODR
and hand 2 has a low ODR?

Hi
my system design on the assumption, that we should consider our ODR in the context of a major contract, that is for 3 ressons a. we rate to win the contested aution more times when in a spade contract then in a diamond contract because of its higher rank, b. the scoring and c. the game level of the major suit .
i had my own share of thoughts about bididng 5-4 and 4-5s with the same bid, but i think this way is better.