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Cavendish Invintational Pairs, 2004 Who are the favorites?

#61 User is offline   cwiggins 

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Posted 2004-May-07, 16:27

My reaction was not because I wanted to see unusual systems (I agree with drawing lines in pairs events) but because I was expecting to see the most intense competition possible between the world’s best pairs.

Clearly that is not happening. Many of the best pairs are not participating. Nor is the competition as sharp as could be. Some of the world class pairs are using unfamilar methods, a natural disadvantage, especially when other pairs are using their normal methods.

Fred is in a much better position than I am to know why that the best pairs are not participating. I read his earlier note saying that the root cause why the best pairs do not participate is that players have to purchase 10% of their auction price. It makes sense.

But even if the best pairs were participating, the competition would not be as instense as possible because of where the Cavendish draws the line on conventions. I suspect Fred is correct that Rodwell and Meckstorth would play SAYC in an event if the money were right. But is R-M playing Bocci-Duboin and both of them playing SAYC maximizing the competition between them? Wouldn’t an SAYC competition be susceptible to bidding accidents because they are not using their normal systems? And doesn’t the strain of using an unfamiliar bidding system detract from the energy they have to spend on play and defense?

If I understand Fred correctly, this is irrelevant: I am (or was) expecting the wrong thing. The purpose of the Cavendish is not to be yet another competition between the best pairs under World Championship rules with the only difference being that money is at stake. Per Fred, the purpose is to market bridge to social players and attract sponsors as a result. In addition, the assumption is that social players are put off by exotic bidding systems. Other considerations (like letting pairs play their normal systems) are secondary to these goals and this assumption.

Fair enough. Given this purpose and assumption, I will adjust my expectations. No longer will I expect the Cavendish to be a premier pair event without qualification. Instead, I will expect it to be a strong pair event participated in by the pairs that can (1) get past the money issue and (2) bid and play well with conventions much more restricted than they are in the World Championships.

Will the Cavendish achieve its goal of attracting social players and sponsors? I hope so. Something needs to help, especially in the U.S. I suspect that the money aspect gives the Cavendish appeal. I would love to see data from the target audience that tells whether they prefer seeing players use their usual systems or seeing only “standard” conventions.

One possibility is that the Cavendish will fail to achieve its goals regardless what is done about making pairs eligible on merit alone or using more restrictive, less restrictive or the same restrictions on conventions. I.e it is possible that bridge will never be widely popular no matter what is done. How will bridge survive if that turns out to be the case? What do we need to do now? Using the internet to aggregate bridge players into a large enough audience to survive is probably part of the answer. I.e. BBO (and similar organizations) may be more important to bridge long term than the Cavendish. Are there other things bridge players should do?

As for being seriously out of touch with reality, I talked to my psychiatrist, and he said I should just ignore such comments, at least until they’re not true. :( No offense taken. Hopefully none given.

Chris Wiggins

P.S. Good luck to Fred in the event.
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#62 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2004-May-08, 08:25

I am looking at the results from http://www.thecavendish.com/

Invitational Pairs 2nd Session May 5, 2004
Scores after 9 rounds Section 12
Pair Score Rank C/O Final
33 868.00 1 411.22 1279.22 Bob Hamman - Zia Mahmood
19 860.00 2 428.66 1288.66 Fulvio Fantoni - Claudio Nunes
etc

Would someone please explain what columns C/O and Final are?

TYIA
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
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#63 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2004-May-08, 08:58

jillybean2, on May 8 2004, 09:25 AM, said:

I am looking at the results from http://www.thecavendish.com/

Invitational Pairs 2nd Session May 5, 2004
Scores after 9 rounds Section 12
Pair Score Rank C/O Final
33 868.00 1 411.22 1279.22 Bob Hamman - Zia Mahmood
19 860.00 2 428.66 1288.66 Fulvio Fantoni - Claudio Nunes
etc

Would someone please explain what columns C/O and Final are?

TYIA

C/O stands for carry over. So for example, you have posted the result of the second session for these pairs. So in the second session, Bob/Zia won 868 imps, they were 1st in that session, they had a carryover of 411.22 points, so their "total" score is 1279.22... they call it final here, but there are what, three more sessions.
--Ben--

#64 User is offline   Rain 

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Posted 2004-May-08, 10:18

At the website, whenever I try to load the bulletin, it says, "Error reading linearised hint data". I asked some of my friends to do that and they got that error too. Can anyone read the pdf files? Anyone know what to do to solve it?


Thanks!

Rain
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#65 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-May-08, 19:04

No. I have tried 3 different pdf readers with the same result.

Ron
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#66 User is offline   Rain 

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Posted 2004-May-08, 19:34

Somehow, on 2 occasions out of the many that I tried, I was able to open the pdf bulletins. All other times I had the same error message, errrr...

-----------
Cascade has a solution for this problem. Right click the link, save target as something, and then you can read :) Works for me now!



Rain...
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#67 User is offline   mishovnbg 

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Posted 2004-May-09, 00:55

I sow that Andrea Buratti - Massimo Lanzarotti Nightmare system is allowed in Cavendish? What about system regulations there, as posted even 2 multi was forbidden...
Misho
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#68 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2004-May-09, 03:09

mishovnbg, on May 9 2004, 07:55 AM, said:

I sow that Andrea Buratti - Massimo Lanzarotti Nightmare system is allowed in Cavendish? What about system regulations there, as posted even 2 multi was forbidden...
Misho

"In general, it is our intent to allow methods with which other contestants are expected to be familiar. It is also our intent to allow reasonable artificiality in auctions where the bidding side has guaranteed sufficient (high-card) values to invite game."

I would have taken this to mean that anything on the ACBL Mid Chart would be fine ... but your comment about the multi suggests otherwise.

Actually I think they mean methods which world class players, not necessarily in a regular partnership, can cope with ....

Paul
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#69 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2004-May-09, 03:19

inquiry, on May 8 2004, 09:58 AM, said:

jillybean2, on May 8 2004, 09:25 AM, said:

I am looking at the results from http://www.thecavendish.com/

Invitational Pairs 2nd Session May 5, 2004
Scores after  9 rounds      Section  12
Pair          Score  Rank     C/O   Final
33          868.00   1    411.22 1279.22 Bob Hamman - Zia Mahmood
19          860.00   2    428.66 1288.66 Fulvio Fantoni - Claudio Nunes
etc

Would someone please explain what columns C/O and Final are?

TYIA

C/O stands for carry over. So for example, you have posted the result of the second session for these pairs. So in the second session, Bob/Zia won 868 imps, they were 1st in that session, they had a carryover of 411.22 points, so their "total" score is 1279.22... they call it final here, but there are what, three more sessions.

I still don't quite understand this.

The "ranking" correlates to the column headed "score" but not with the column headed "Final". "Score" = "Final" - "C/O".

Does this mean that "ranking" only shows the ranking for that session and not overall ranking?

Also there are a few "-50" adjustments floating around, but no corresponding "+50" adjustments. Does this mean they are procedural penalties?

PS I also get that error message trying to read the pdf files but only when I left click on the link to open the file directly. If I right click on the link and choose Save As to download it to my hard drive and then open it from there it seems to work (for me).

This post has been edited by 1eyedjack: 2004-May-09, 03:26

Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

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#70 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2004-May-09, 03:23

1eyedjack, on May 9 2004, 10:19 AM, said:

inquiry, on May 8 2004, 09:58 AM, said:

jillybean2, on May 8 2004, 09:25 AM, said:

I am looking at the results from http://www.thecavendish.com/

Invitational Pairs 2nd Session May 5, 2004
Scores after  9 rounds      Section  12
Pair          Score  Rank     C/O   Final
33          868.00   1    411.22 1279.22 Bob Hamman - Zia Mahmood
19          860.00   2    428.66 1288.66 Fulvio Fantoni - Claudio Nunes
etc

Would someone please explain what columns C/O and Final are?

TYIA

C/O stands for carry over. So for example, you have posted the result of the second session for these pairs. So in the second session, Bob/Zia won 868 imps, they were 1st in that session, they had a carryover of 411.22 points, so their "total" score is 1279.22... they call it final here, but there are what, three more sessions.

I still don't quite understand this.

The "ranking" correlates to the column headed "score" but not with the column headed "Final". "Score" = "Final" - "C/O".

Does this mean that "ranking" only shows the ranking for that session and not overall ranking?

PS I also get that error message trying to read the pdf files

Correct - the ranking was shown for the session and not the event to date.

However the latest files just put on the website for Session 4 are a lot better - just two files, one for the Session and a simple one with the current placings.

And I've had no problems downloading the PDFs using my Opera browser (http://www.opera.com)

Paul
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#71 User is offline   Dwingo 

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Posted 2004-May-09, 04:40

Can someone help in explaining how the scoring is done in this event. I dont understand the negative Matchpoints. You can use the example below for explanation. I have taken this from the cavendish website.


Quote

RESULTS OF BOARD 1

  SCORES      MATCHPOINTS        NAMES
  N-S      E-W    N-S        E-W
            100    14.00    -14.00    16-Shenkin-Tudor vs 48-Fallenius-Welland
  100            126.00  -126.00    49-Deutsch-Soloway vs 17-Glubok-Robison
            150    -23.00    23.00    18-Chemla-Ferraro vs 50-Gitelman-Moss
            150    -23.00    23.00    19-Fantoni-Nunes vs 46-Casen-Kasle
            150    -23.00    23.00    20-Elahmady-Sadek vs 47-Ekeblad-Rubin
              50    47.00    -47.00    23-Miller-Wold vs 11-Freed-Larsen
            150    -23.00    23.00    24-Passell-Strul vs 12-Balicki-Zmudzinski
            100    14.00    -14.00    13-Hayden-Passell vs 25-Multon-Quantin
            500  -204.00    204.00    14-Baze-Whitman vs 21-Lev-Pszczola
            150    -23.00    23.00    22-Altschuler-Birman vs 15-Johnson-Meckstroth
            100    14.00    -14.00      6-Jacobs-Katz vs 28-Bramley-Compton
  110            127.00    -127.00  29-Buratti-Lanzarotti vs  7-Levin-Weinstein
            100    14.00    -14.00    8-Grabel-Wittes vs 30-Stansby-Stansby
            300  -106.00    106.00    26-Grue-Moss vs  9-Fleisher-Martel
  110            127.00    -127.00  27-Levy-Mouiel vs 10-Samuel-Samuel
            510  -204.00    204.00    31-Blanchard-Gawrys vs  3-Stewart-Woolsey
            500  -204.00    204.00    32-Goren-Rosenberg vs  4-Gromov-Petrunin
            150    -23.00      23.00    5-Lewis-Lewis vs 33-Hamman-Mahmood
  150              151.00  -151.00    1-Bocchi-Duboin vs 34-Cohler-Schwartz
  100              126.00  -126.00  35-Bertheau-Nystrom vs  2-Kaminski-Levit
            100      14.00    -14.00    43-Meltzer-Weichsel vs 36-Saporta-Zimmermann
            100      14.00    -14.00    44-Cohen-Smith vs 37-Garner-Weinstein
            300  -106.00    106.00  38-Dawson-Rodwell vs 45-Fredin-Lindkvist
            50      47.00    -47.00    39-Greco-Hampson vs 41-Hallberg-Wigoder
  110              127.00  -127.00    40-Cornell-Jedrychoski vs 42-Doub-Wildavsky


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#72 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2004-May-09, 05:05

Dwingo, on May 9 2004, 11:40 AM, said:

Can someone help in explaining how the scoring is done in this event. I dont understand the negative Matchpoints. You can use the example below for explanation. I have taken this from the cavendish website.


Quote

RESULTS OF BOARD 1

   SCORES      MATCHPOINTS        NAMES
  N-S      E-W    N-S        E-W
            100     14.00    -14.00    16-Shenkin-Tudor vs 48-Fallenius-Welland
  100             126.00   -126.00    49-Deutsch-Soloway vs 17-Glubok-Robison
            150    -23.00     23.00    18-Chemla-Ferraro vs 50-Gitelman-Moss
            150    -23.00     23.00    19-Fantoni-Nunes vs 46-Casen-Kasle
            150    -23.00     23.00    20-Elahmady-Sadek vs 47-Ekeblad-Rubin
              50     47.00    -47.00    23-Miller-Wold vs 11-Freed-Larsen
            150    -23.00     23.00    24-Passell-Strul vs 12-Balicki-Zmudzinski

These are not matchpoints but IMPs as the event is scored as if teams.

Each table is scored as if it is having a team match with every other table. So, for a single result, there are 24 comparisons to be made ... and this is why the scores are so large.

So, looking at the scores above ....

Shenkin-Tudor, playing North-South, scored -100 on this board. Let us compare this to table 2, where Deutsch-Soloway, the NS pair scored +100. This means that Shenkin-Tudor are -200 compared to Deutsch-Soloway and this is worth -5 IMPs.

Comparing with table 3, Chemla-Ferraro, Shenkin-Tudor scored -100 compared with -150 so their score on this table is +50, or 2 IMPs.

Repeat for every table and you get their total IMPs on the board.

Inversely, their opponents will get the opposite score.

HTH

paul
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#73 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2004-May-09, 23:46

Hi, does anyone have the log from Saturdays Cavendish where Roland is talking about Yarboroughs. I wanted this for the BIL news update but I have inadvertently deleted my log.

Thanks!!
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#74 User is offline   mishovnbg 

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Posted 2004-May-10, 01:02

Can somebody write a final position and prises? Will be interesting to count how much anybody lose/win in our virtual auction :o
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#75 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2004-May-10, 02:59

The_Hog, on May 8 2004, 10:04 PM, said:

No. I have tried 3 different pdf readers with the same result.

Ron

Sorry I didnt see this sooner.

I was unable to open the pdf files too.

But I was consistently able to download them and open them from my machine.

Not sure what is going on but I hope that this helps.
Wayne Burrows

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#76 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2004-May-10, 10:37

                                             Score   Auction Players
                                                       Pool    Pool
1   Sam Lev - Jacek Pszczola                3495.49 $243,308 $26,810
2   Fulvio Fantoni - Claudio Nunes          3424.35 $156,412 $17,236
3   Bob Hamman - Zia Mahmood                3363.31 $104,274 $11,490
4   Norberto Bocchi - Giorgio Duboin        2895.57 $ 78,206 $ 8,618
5   Paul Chemla - Guido Ferraro             2565.47 $ 69,516 $ 7,660
6   Eric Greco - Geoff Hampson              1757.74 $ 60,828 $ 6,702
7   Bjorn Fallenius - Roy Welland           1531.95 $ 52,138 $ 5,744
8   Brian Glubok - Jim Robison              1522.09 $ 43,448 $ 4,788
9   Andrea Buratti - Massimo Lanzarotti     1488.54 $ 34,760 $ 3,830
10  Rose Meltzer - Peter Weichsel           1389.53 $ 26,070 $ 2,872

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#77 User is offline   mishovnbg 

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Posted 2004-May-14, 02:11

Hi all!

My bets won for:
$23000 -> Norberto Bocchi - Giorgio DuBoin
$16000 ->Fulvio Fantoni - Claudio Nunes

Total for buy pairs: $39000


I won form:

Norberto Bocchi - Giorgio DuBoin -> $78206
Fulvio Fantoni - Claudio Nunes -> $156412

I won total: $234618

This mean I have net of $195618 :unsure:

Can other competitors of auction to post their results too? Am I winer as usually with virtual money? :rolleyes:
Misho
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#78 User is offline   Trpltrbl 

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Posted 2004-May-21, 14:20

The check is in the mail, Misho :unsure:

Mike :)
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