[andy_h]

Scoring: IMP

---

E/W has the auction of (E dealer)
       1♣
1♠ - 2NT
3♦* - 3♠ ;   3♦ = Checkback
4♣ - 4♦
4♥ - 4NT
5♠ - 6♠

Comments?

What if East had ♠AJx ♥Kx ♦Ax ♣KQJxxx ?

[Fluffy]

andy, is 4♥ conventional? if it was a psyche, did it work?

[manudude03]

If 4♥ was LTTC then East should just cue 5♣ lacking a heart control to allow West to sign off in 5♠.

[jdonn]

Even if 4♥ is conventional last train whatever, it's an overbid. I have previously mentioned that some people seem to bid last train any time it's available, and never sign off. West is a 12 count with no extra trump length and nothing particularly exciting about the hand, and he has already made a slam try. Why would he not bid 4♠ even if 4♥ was artificial?

Needless to say in any case that it was either a misunderstanding about 4♥ or some sort of (overused) psych.

[Trinidad]

Removed for formatting reasons.

[Trinidad]

andy_h, on Jan 14 2009, 07:48 PM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ KQ9xx ♥ xx ♦ QJ9x ♣ Ax ♠ AJx ♥ Q10 ♦ Ax ♣ KQJxxx

E/W has the auction of (E dealer)
       1♣
1♠ - 2NT
3♦* - 3♠ ;   3♦ = Checkback
4♣ - 4♦
4♥ - 4NT
5♠ - 6♠

Comments?

What if East had ♠AJx ♥Kx ♦Ax ♣KQJxxx ?

Your second question shows where the problem lies. I'll start by answering the first, though.

Question 1:
West shouldn't have bid 4♥. The bid should have been 4♠. End of story.

Question 2:
You are suggesting that if East would have held ♠AJx ♥Kx ♦Ax ♣KQJxxx, a good slam would be missed. But this is not true. Auctions are not only defined by the bids that were made, but also by the bids that weren't made.

With the hand that you give, East shouldn't bid 4♦. After all, at that point in the auction East knows that there are 13 tricks if all keycards are there, 12 if one keycard is missing and 11 if two are missing. So East will put on the captain's hat and will just bid 4NT. Since East didn't bid 4NT (but 4♦) he cannot have the hand that you give.

Of course this is a difficult auction. It requires an experienced partnership. To bid this hand well, it is crucial that
- each player takes captaincy when they can.
- the players know that their partner will take captaincy when he can.
- the players know that when partner is not taking captaincy of the auction the reason will be that he cannot take captaincy of the auction.

In this case, in an experienced partnership, West knows that East lacks a heart control (as in this case) or that East has a bad hand for slam purposes. And if East cannot have a heart control or if East has a bad hand for slam, West doesn't want to be in slam and should sign off in 4♠.

In practice, with most partners, this hand is somewhat easier to bid. Most partners will hog the bidding whenever they can and sometimes when they shouldn't. Once you realize that, it means that a partner who is not hogging the bidding definitely doesn't know (yet) where to go. And there must be a reason for that.

Rik

[Apollo81]

The auction was reasonable up till 4♥. Instead of how it went, I think it should have gone 4♠-5♣-5♠-pass, or opener might even pass 4♠.

[neilkaz]

jdonn, on Jan 14 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

Even if 4♥ is conventional last train whatever, it's an overbid. I have previously mentioned that some people seem to bid last train any time it's available, and never sign off. West is a 12 count with no extra trump length and nothing particularly exciting about the hand, and he has already made a slam try. Why would he not bid 4♠ even if 4♥ was artificial?

Needless to say in any case that it was either a misunderstanding about 4♥ or some sort of (overused) psych.

I can't present my feelings any better than you just did here...very nice comment.

[FrancesHinden]

jdonn, on Jan 15 2009, 12:54 AM, said:

Even if 4♥ is conventional last train whatever, it's an overbid. I have previously mentioned that some people seem to bid last train any time it's available, and never sign off. West is a 12 count with no extra trump length and nothing particularly exciting about the hand, and he has already made a slam try. Why would he not bid 4♠ even if 4♥ was artificial?

Needless to say in any case that it was either a misunderstanding about 4♥ or some sort of (overused) psych.

yes, well put.

And indeed, if opener has AJx Kx Ax KQJxxx and heard partner make a slam try and show the ace of clubs, he has an easy Blackwood bid, and will probably place the final contract in clubs (or NT) rather than spades.

Apart from protecting the king of hearts, partner might also have something like K10xxx Qxx KQx Ax when 6S looks a bit of a silly contract.

[Phil]

If playing LTTC:

4♥ shows something like AKxxx xx Qxxx Ax; great trump, but can't take control. Its not that specific about a heart control.

Agree that one little nudge (4♣) is appropriate with the West hand. 4♥ is much too encouraging.

[JLOL]

4H was just too much, as others mentioned if east had the hypothetical hand you posted he would drive to slam after a slam try. West's hand was only worth 1 slam try.

My initial reaction was that the 4N bid was beyond awful, similarly bad as 4H, but I guess west can have KQxxx Kxx xxx Ax and bid this way and pass a 4S signoff by east, so I will say that easts bid is merely bad.