[shevek]

Scoring: MP

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We bid
1♣   1♠
2♥   2NT *
3NT

* 2NT was a negative, anything else would be forcing.
South led ♦Q but they were 4-4 and ♥Q was onside so all was well.

Yes the traditional style of 2♥ - 3♣ non-forcing would have been better this time.
Is there a way to avoid this wrong-siding playing Blackout?

Is there merit in using the suit step (2♠ in this case) as the negative?

[gwnn]

No I dont think so. There are loads of times you just wrong-side something.

[Hanoi5]

Just choose another negative. I prefer to rebid my first suit as a negative, instead of NT or the 4th suit.

[mcphee]

I do not agree with 2N neg with this hand. 4 card trump support an ace plus a J in pards second suit gets me optimistic even opposite a minimum reverse. Even without the positive 3C I think the strong hand needs to push more even though marginally into the GF area after the S response. After all, if the strong hand was 5 card H and 4 card C surely they would j/s creating a GF when they opene 1H and pard responds 1S, this hand is no different.

[Fluffy]

perfect bidding, perfect play, next board. I use 2NT as negative, and 2♠ as pattern out request to save space when partner is 5422.

[peachy]

Wrongsiding happens now and then, regardless of what method is used. It is not often that we end up in NT after opener reverses, showing a suit oriented hand, and responder bids the weakness showing 2NT.

As an aside, I think this responder is much too strong to use a weakness showing bid. He has a side ace, a side doubleton, and 4-card support for partner who has shown a strong hand. Even responder's Jack can be upgraded to its full value in filling up the heart suit.

[jdonn]

East I think is too good for a negative.

West might as well bid 3♦ instead of 3NT, it will lead to a more accurate auction since responder might have club support, weak spades, long diamonds, etc.

BTW why don't you want to be in game, 5♣ seems pretty good. It's hard to avoid 3NT I admit though.

[mike777]

shevek, on Jan 10 2009, 08:14 AM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: Both Scoring: MP

♠ 8 ♥ AKT6 ♦ K98 ♣ AKQ65 ♠ AJ92 ♥ J83 ♦ 75 ♣ J432

We bid
1♣   1♠
2♥   2NT *
3NT

* 2NT was a negative, anything else would be forcing.
South led ♦Q but they were 4-4 and ♥Q was onside so all was well.

Yes the traditional style of 2♥ - 3♣ non-forcing would have been better this time.
Is there a way to avoid this wrong-siding playing Blackout?

Is there merit in using the suit step (2♠ in this case) as the negative?

Bidding and contract seems normal at MP...I suppose at imps west might rebid 3d but...

I need rebid of 2s to promise 5 spades and neg/minimum

[NickToll]

I like the suggestion of playing 1NT over 1♣ as a minimum 4-3-3-3 with four spades (I read this in Danny Kleinman's "The Notrump Zone"): this way, 1♠ guarantees five or more cards or at least a game invitation. As a consequence, after 1♣ - 1♠ - 2♦/2♥ the only negative needed is 2♠, natural with five cards: 2NT can be played as positive.

[Codo]

NickToll, on Jan 11 2009, 07:11 AM, said:

I like the suggestion of playing 1NT over 1♣ as a minimum 4-3-3-3 with four spades (I read this in Danny Kleinman's "The Notrump Zone"): this way, 1♠ guarantees five or more cards or at least a game invitation. As a consequence, after 1♣ - 1♠ - 2♦/2♥ the only negative needed is 2♠, natural with five cards: 2NT can be played as positive.

The obvious downside is, that you need to find a bid with a 3334 hand and that you must rebid 1 Diamond with Kxx,KxxKxxx,xxx etc...

[Fluffy]

Not only that, it seems that you are never given 4324, or 4342.

[bid_em_up]

This hand is a negative opposite a reverse? News to me.

Seriously, you have a good fit for openers first suit, and a partial fit for his second suit. Additionally, you have a control for one of openers short suits.

This hand is worth direct 3C positive bid over 2H, imo.

[mtvesuvius]

Fluffy, on Jan 10 2009, 06:22 PM, said:

Not only that, it seems that you are never given 4324, or 4342.

4342 or 4243 can bid 1♦ first, but 4234 and 4324 are miserable to bid here.

[Fluffy]

I don't find East's hand worth more than a negative, 3 jacks, and our most likelly game where our 4th trump is usefull happens at the 5 level.

[andy_h]

I also agree that East's hand doesn't look like a negative to me. Opposite a reverse, you have an Ace and 2 of partner's jacks, what could be really good filler cards. Imagine his hearts were KQ10x or AQxx or something. The 4th club is definitely a big card.

[dake50]

Lucky to be missing H9, else this is run HJ to make 6C.

[FrancesHinden]

It's pretty marginal which way up you want to play 3NT anyway, as played by the strong hand on a spade lead you are likely to need the heart finesse.

I agree it's slightly better, but there's not a great deal in it.