[Stephen Tu]

Scoring: IMP

---

uncontested:
1♠-2♥;
2♠ (1) - ????
(1) catchall, doesn't promise 6S, denies 3+H, denies bal w/ both min stop

If you choose 3♥, this fetches 4♥. now ???
If you choose that, I also welcome alternative plans for when playing a style where 3♥ is not an option since it's non-forcing.

showing spade support (3♠, 4♣) elicits 4♠.

[mike777]

3s

If partner rebids 4s, I will try 5s.

[rogerclee]

I would bid 3♥ and pass 4♥.

[mtvesuvius]

Agree with clee. I see no reason to play ♠ here.

[Phil]

rogerclee, on Jan 12 2009, 09:26 PM, said:

I would bid 3♥ and pass 4♥.

Of course. Doesn't pard have the option of cuebidding over 3♥?

[Stephen Tu]

Well, 3S isn't a cue, and he wouldn't necessarily always cue the DK with a minimum hand. Plus after all AKQxx Qx xx Qxxx is on a 3-2 break for 7, and what else could partner really do? (Didn't show up with that hand in real life, but I am trying to find out if anybody can think of a scientific way to get to most good slams while avoiding most bad ones.)

[rogerclee]

Stephen Tu, on Jan 12 2009, 10:37 PM, said:

Well, 3S isn't a cue, and he wouldn't necessarily always cue the DK with a minimum hand.  Plus after all AKQxx Qx xx Qxxx is on a 3-2 break for 7, and what else could partner really do?   (Didn't show up with that hand in real life, but I am trying to find out if anybody can think of a scientific way to get to most good slams while avoiding most bad ones.)

You can make arguments like this for most slam auctions, but it is obvious that there are many more hands where we can't make 5♥, and bidding both 5♣ and 5♦ over 4♥ have serious problems as well, so it seems very difficult to get to 6♥ even if it's a good contract (or if you are very aggressive, we will be in a lot of bad 6♥ contracts).

Also I would cuebid 4♣ on your hand, I would always rather lie about a control than about the quality of my hand.

[Codo]

I would bid 3 ♠, natural and strong.
I don't know, why we should not belong in spades and the nice thing is that my partner will know that I have my cards in the majors, so he will upgrate all honours there.
He will answer with 3 NT to show a real good hand for slam (in the context of his rebid) or a control when he has minimum. If this control is in diamond, I make one more move, if he has no outside control, I will use KC, because he should have really goodspades then.

I really don't see the point in 3 Heart, even if this is forcing. When I listen to partners bidding, this hand is about bothmajors, not just one.
Of course Heart may play better opposite Axxxx,Qx,Kx,AKxx, or
KQxxx, Qx,Qjx,Axx but how many more hands can you find, where you make slam in Heart but not in spade.

[Stephen Tu]

rogerclee, on Jan 13 2009, 12:25 AM, said:

Also I would cuebid 4♣ on your hand, I would always rather lie about a control than about the quality of my hand.

Huh, are you really saying that AKQxx Qx xx Qxxx should cue bid 4c after
1s-2h;
2s-3h
?

[rogerclee]

Stephen Tu, on Jan 13 2009, 01:32 AM, said:

rogerclee, on Jan 13 2009, 12:25 AM, said:

Also I would cuebid 4♣ on your hand, I would always rather lie about a control than about the quality of my hand.

Huh, are you really saying that AKQxx Qx xx Qxxx should cue bid 4c after
1s-2h;
2s-3h
?

Yes, as you said, this is a great hand for hearts!

[Hanoi5]

It might get you too high but, how about 5♣ (exclusion KC) over 2♠?

[Fluffy]

Phil, on Jan 13 2009, 04:47 AM, said:

rogerclee, on Jan 12 2009, 09:26 PM, said:

I would bid 3♥ and pass 4♥.

Of course. Doesn't pard have the option of cuebidding over 3♥?

Not in spades, and that's where we want it to be. I would try 5♣ over 4♥.

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

Yes, as you said, this is a great hand for hearts!

Really? You are trying for slam when even game should go down
opposite x AKJxxx KQx xxx?

I think it's way too much to cue with that, you can have much better hands for
hearts and if you cue with this little then partner (with other hands than the above,
result is same regardless on that particular nightmare) has too wide a range to cater to, IMO.

I'm starting to think it's just a guess (therefore may try simulation) on this hand,
partner's hands can range from cold for 7, to "5 or 7 hands" (the table result, on spade hook for 7 in either major, both teams languished in game for no swing), to 5 in jeopardy.

[rogerclee]

Hanoi5, on Jan 13 2009, 02:42 AM, said:

It might get you too high but, how about 5♣ (exclusion KC) over 2♠?

lol no

[rogerclee]

Stephen Tu, on Jan 13 2009, 03:01 AM, said:

Quote

Yes, as you said, this is a great hand for hearts!

Really? You are trying for slam when even game should go down
opposite x AKJxxx KQx xxx?

I think it's way too much to cue with that, you can have much better hands for
hearts and if you cue with this little then partner (with other hands than the above,
result is same regardless on that particular nightmare) has too wide a range to cater to, IMO.

I'm starting to think it's just a guess (therefore may try simulation) on this hand,
partner's hands can range from cold for 7, to "5 or 7 hands" (the table result, on spade hook for 7 in either major, both teams languished in game for no swing), to 5 in jeopardy.

What percentage of hands that want to support hearts should cuebid, in your opinion? I have always played a style where we can cuebid rather freely below game, and in this auction, I would expect to cuebid on approximately half of the hands that want to raise hearts. I think this hand fits into this "top 50%" criteria, but maybe you don't. I would bid 4♥ on many hands that contain a singleton heart, so having Qx is a big bonus to me.

[nige1]

Stephen Tu, on Jan 12 2009, 09:12 PM, said:

Dealer: North Vul: none Scoring: IMP

♠ xxx ♥ AKJ8xxx ♦ Axx ♣

uncontested: 1♠-2♥; 2♠ (1) - ???? (1) catchall, doesn't promise 6S, denies 3+H, denies bal w/ both min stop If you choose 3♥, this fetches 4♥.  now ??? If you choose that, I also welcome alternative plans for when playing a style where 3♥ is not an option since it's non-forcing. showing spade support (3♠, 4♣) elicits 4♠.

In answer to Steve's 2nd question, I play 3♥ (and 3♠) as non-forcing, so IMO...
3♦ = 10, 4♣ (splinter) = 9, 5♣ (exclusion) = 8.

[benlessard]

I think 4C is the correct bid but 5C is a small overbid. I dont like 3H because its likely to endplay us later.

there is some shitty hand with wasted clubs that will make 6 a good bet.

KQJxx
x
Kxx
Kxxx

or

AKJxxx
x
QJ
Qxxx

etc..