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another scientific vs natural decision

Poll: what would you bid (38 member(s) have cast votes)

what would you bid

  1. 2 spades to let partner pattern out and after I will make a bright decision (masterminding) (6 votes [15.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.79%

  2. 2 spades to let partner pattern out and then I splinter (scientific) (4 votes [10.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

  3. 3 spades to show where I live (naturalist) (16 votes [42.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.11%

  4. other (12 votes [31.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.58%

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#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 15:44

♠QJ72
♥9
♦A7632
♣AK4

2/1

1♠-2♦
2♥-??

NOTE: 4 hearts would be natural, no splinter in hearts avaible.

Bonus question: Do you move on latter?

Likelly continuations (sorry if I picked a different aproach than yours next round):

After 2 spades:
Spoiler


After 3 spades:
Spoiler

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#2 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 15:45

Need more info.
Kevin Fay
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#3 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 15:48

wow it took me only a few seconds to realice I missed the bidding, you were fast
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#4 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 15:59

I'd just bid 2♠ then start cuebidding.
Kevin Fay
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#5 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 16:13

2♠. I got special methods for the follow-ups, though.
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#6 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 16:20

I find some other methods where I can show my support on the previous round rather than bidding an ace-empty suit.
Wayne Burrows

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#7 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 16:26

Abstain, 2♦ was a terrible call, 4♥ is also a terrible call unless I have weak/strong splinters available.
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#8 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 16:32

STrongly prefer 2nt or some very strong spade raise over one spade.
Dislike 2d, strongly.
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#9 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 16:35

Wouldn't a jump to 3♠ at this point show good diamonds and spades? Else why go about raising indirectly. Even if I didn't have an immediate forcing raise available, there must be some distinction between 2♠ and 3♠ now. I think the jump should show quality.
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#10 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 16:40

TimG, on Jan 4 2009, 03:35 PM, said:

Wouldn't a jump to 3♠ at this point show good diamonds and spades?  Else why go about raising indirectly.  Even if I didn't have an immediate forcing raise available, there must be some distinction between 2♠ and 3♠ now.  I think the jump should show quality.

I actually play it as a spade splinter with heart support, but I wouldn't do this without talking about it, and I don't claim this is best.
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#11 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 17:36

rogerclee, on Jan 4 2009, 05:40 PM, said:

TimG, on Jan 4 2009, 03:35 PM, said:

Wouldn't a jump to 3♠ at this point show good diamonds and spades?  Else why go about raising indirectly.  Even if I didn't have an immediate forcing raise available, there must be some distinction between 2♠ and 3♠ now.  I think the jump should show quality.

I actually play it as a spade splinter with heart support, but I wouldn't do this without talking about it, and I don't claim this is best.

LOL

(couldn't help it :P)
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#12 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 17:37

I don't think of myself as a scientist, but I do think its important to define HCP ranges for splinters and what jumps show after a 2/1.

I can show 4 spades, heart shortness and 12-14 HCPs over 1S. For me, 2D then 2S denies 4 spades and 2d then 3S shows 3+ spades and *good* diamonds.
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#13 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 19:54

mike777, on Jan 4 2009, 05:32 PM, said:

STrongly prefer 2nt or some very strong spade raise over one spade.
Dislike 2d, strongly.

:P 2♦ seems to me to be the third best bid.
2NT leads to an easy auction as partner will show shortness or else reveal his/her general strength with the next bid. I can then MASTERMIND the hand.
A strong jump shift of 3♦ has a lot going for it as well, esp. opposite a good partner who will not give up on slam holding a diamond fit, so I can simply support spades and then relax. Six ♠ is easy opposite ♠AKxxx and ♦KQx.
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#14 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 20:48

Cascade, on Jan 5 2009, 05:20 AM, said:

I find some other methods where I can show my support on the previous round rather than bidding an ace-empty suit.

Agree.
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#15 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2009-January-04, 21:47

Abstain wondering why I didn't make a GF ♠ raise with my first call.
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#16 User is offline   dicklont 

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Posted 2009-January-05, 01:03

I chose 3♠ and now I know that partner has the ace of hearts, a singleton clubs, and at least nine cards in the majors.
This leaves at most 1 looser in diamonds.
Partner could have diamond king, and if he doesn't his values are concentratred in the majors.

Even with this bad hand slam is making:
AKxxx
Axxx
Qxx
x

All in all I bid 5♣ now and hope partner shows diamond king.
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#17 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-January-05, 03:53

bah, whatever excuse just not to answer, lucky you that your 2NT methods are overloaded and can hold any hand from 7 spades to 3 from voids to 4333.
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#18 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2009-January-05, 04:31

Fluffy, on Jan 5 2009, 02:53 AM, said:

bah, whatever excuse just not to answer, lucky you that your 2NT methods are overloaded and can hold any hand from 7 spades to 3 from voids to 4333.

You are right, this is a very difficult problem! It is difficult because we know that partner has three diamonds, but which 3 diamonds he has are very important, and he will like Qxx a lot, when in reality, that is a terrible holding. It is difficult because partner has no idea about our heart shortness or the degree of our spade support, so all of his bidding is pretty meaningless, and we are out of room to show these features about our hand. All in all, a very hard problem!

Hopefully it is obvious now why 2♦ was a bad bid.
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#19 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2009-January-05, 04:58

I'd 4NT after 3♠ and the sequence you offered.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#20 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-January-05, 05:48

Fluffy, on Jan 5 2009, 10:53 AM, said:

bah, whatever excuse just not to answer, lucky you that your 2NT methods are overloaded and can hold any hand from 7 spades to 3 from voids to 4333.

It does promise 4-card support and deny a hand suitable for a splinter. But you are probably right that it is over-loaded.
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