[shevek]

Scoring: IMP

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On BBO last week ...
I doubled East's 1♠ opening, West passed and partner's 2♥ was passed out. She groaned a bit when dummy tracked but chalked up +110 in our only making spot.
I was unrepentant, believing my spade holding offered insurance over club leaps from partner. Yes, I could bid diamonds over clubs to show this.

At the other table, South made the normal 2♦ overcall, though 1NT has merit. This was passed around to East who doubled for +110 in 3♣.

Yet another undeserved 6 IMP swing?

[inquiry]

Actually, 2♥ is NOT the last makeable contract. Both 3♥ and 3♦ can (and should) make. For what it is worth EW can make 4♣'s.

[shevek]

inquiry, on Jan 4 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

Actually, 2♥ is NOT the last makeable contract. Both 3♥ and 3♦ can (and should) make. For what it is worth EW can make 4♣'s.

Yes they made 10 tricks in 4♣, still just 6 IMPs.
However, 3♥ & 2♦ are easy enough to shoot.

[cherdano]

West not being able to find a completely obvious reopening double proves ... what exactly??

[awm]

I think it is widely accepted that doubling off-shape like this will work out well when partner has a four-four fit in the unbid major suit. No big surprise there.

The question is whether this justifies the lousy results you'll find when partner doesn't have four cards in the unbid major. Sometimes partner is going to bid clubs and you could be in for an adventure (regardless of whether you pass or try to correct). The strong spade holding actually increases the probability of this (i.e. if partner has 3235 he might bid notrump if he had any spade cards).

Of course there is the alternative "best of both" solution of playing a conventional method to show four cards in the unbid major plus a five-card or longer minor, but then you lose whatever call you displaced (i.e. natural 1NT, or some cuebid or jump shift).

I also agree with Cherdano that the opponents could have competed to 3♣ over 2♥ at least as easily as they competed to 3♣ over 2♦, and that the IMP win was more a result of opponents being passive at one table and active at the other, rather than any merit to the double as opposed to overcall.

[shevek]

cherdano, on Jan 4 2009, 09:26 PM, said:

West not being able to find a completely obvious reopening double proves ... what exactly??

Well, it suggests some people are cowed by a takeout double.
I like to post real hands with real results, rather than convenient hands without pips. Sure I could have swapped a few club honours to bolster the point but this is what happened ATT.

I'll keep paddling and tell you how we go.

[Hanoi5]

You were just lucky your opponents didn't want to compete. Also, I understand you can double off-shape if you play a convention where the bid of a certain suit at a certain level is not forcing.

[FrancesHinden]

shevek, on Jan 5 2009, 01:27 AM, said:

At the other table, South made the normal 2♦ overcall, though 1NT has merit. This was passed around to East who doubled for +110 in 3♣.

Yet another undeserved 6 IMP swing?

No.

You got a swing in because West didn't look at his hand during the auction, not because of the off-shape take-out double.

[Gerben42]

Well it may work for you, but I think both Dbl and 2♦ are terrible bids in this situation. You gained 6 IMPs because West didn't bid, rather than because you doubled.

So even in this rather good situation (partner has 4-card ♥ support) you gained exactly nothing. Yet, I shiver to think about what MIGHT have happened in many hands where partner does not hold 4 Hearts.

Additionally, I think this Dbl is alertable (except if you play in places where no Dbl is alerted, which I think is a terrible rule...).

[Fluffy]

off shpape doubles work whenever partner doesn't bid your shortness, if you are getting advantage more than 50% of the time, maybe it is a good MPs strategy. Not something I'd like to test, but maybe its not nuts.

Everyone has seen their opponents using it to success.

[BobElliott]

good hand for raptor 1nt....

1S - 1NT (4H & 5+MINOR) - P - 2H

[cherdano]

shevek, on Jan 5 2009, 02:03 AM, said:

cherdano, on Jan 4 2009, 09:26 PM, said:

West not being able to find a completely obvious reopening double proves ... what exactly??

Well, it suggests some people are cowed by a takeout double.

Yup, next time I make a takeout double with my 3-count so that opponents won't bid a slam.

[Gerben42]

Just something I also noticed: Give partner the ♣A instead of a small ♣ and the auction would've gone:

1♠ PASS 1NT Pass
2♣ Dbl 3♣ 3♥
Pass 4♥ All Pass

Whereas if you start with a Dbl, even with 2 Aces partner is still going to just bid 2♥ and you don't know if you should act again.

[whereagles]

Gerben42, on Jan 5 2009, 04:44 PM, said:

if you start with a Dbl, even with 2 Aces partner is still going to just bid 2♥

Well, I wouldn't. Would bid 3♥.

Even with that 3433...