[qwery_hi]

In a team game, can a pair decide to play system 1 Vs opp. pair 1 and system 2 Vs opp. pair 2? If this is banned, what is the logic behind the ban?

[ASkolnick]

My understanding is you can only play one system through the entire event. You can only change based on seat, position and/or vulnerability.

Let's say you were allowed to play:
Precision against Standard American
2/1 against all others.

The other team:
Standard American against 2/1
Precision against others.

You could have an infinite loop. Theoretically, you could play that the team with searing rights declares their system last, but not in the rules.

Feel free for anyone to correct me if they think I am wrong.

[helene_t]

If opps play some system in which an opening pass means something different from "weakish, unsuited for preempt", then I would think one could play a different system in second seat after opps start with such a pass in first seat.

[TimG]

I think you are correct. But, suppose I play a complicated system and find myself at the table against a couple of novices. Could I change to Standard American for this match so as not to overly frustrate my opponents?

That is: what if the system change is not based upon the opponents' system?

[cherdano]

TimG, on Dec 30 2008, 08:49 AM, said:

I think you are correct. But, suppose I play a complicated system and find myself at the table against a couple of novices. Could I change to Standard American for this match so as not to overly frustrate my opponents?

That is: what if the system change is not based up the opponents' system?

Do we really need a rule to allow s.th. that everybody at the table would agree with?

[helene_t]

Once Shogi and I got so fed up with LOLs and LOGs who complained about alian methods that we decided always to play "opponents' system" at club nights. It was generally not appreciated so we soon went back to our own system. Later I read in the IMP magazine that it is not allowed to play "opponents' system".

[qwery_hi]

ASkolnick, on Dec 30 2008, 09:43 AM, said:

My understanding is you can only play one system through the entire event.  You can only change based on seat, position and/or vulnerability.

Let's say you were allowed to play:
      Precision against Standard American
      2/1 against all others.

The other team:
     Standard American against 2/1
     Precision against others.

You could have an infinite loop. Theoretically, you could play that the team with searing rights declares their system last, but not in the rules.

Feel free for anyone to correct me if they think I am wrong.

I think I meant this -

Can a pair decide to play 2/1 Vs RM , but if they happen to be facing Nickell they play precision.

Note that they would have to submit 2 convention cards, well before the Bermuda Bowl, in accordance with all the rules, etc.

As far as the opponents are concerned, their work is not increased.

[TimG]

cherdano, on Dec 30 2008, 09:53 AM, said:

TimG, on Dec 30 2008, 08:49 AM, said:

I think you are correct.  But, suppose I play a complicated system and find myself at the table against a couple of novices.  Could I change to Standard American for this match so as not to overly frustrate my opponents?

That is: what if the system change is not based up the opponents' system?

Do we really need a rule to allow s.th. that everybody at the table would agree with?

Well, suppose I am trying out a new system and I sit down against a pair that really makes me nervous. I'm sure I'll be more prone to forgets this match, can we revert to the older, more familiar, methods for a single match.

I was just trying to give an example of a non-system reason for switching systems. I wasn't trying to make a rule for a situation where a rule wasn't needed. Maybe my second example is no better. But, I hope you get the idea.

[cherdano]

TimG, on Dec 30 2008, 09:51 AM, said:

cherdano, on Dec 30 2008, 09:53 AM, said:

TimG, on Dec 30 2008, 08:49 AM, said:

I think you are correct.  But, suppose I play a complicated system and find myself at the table against a couple of novices.  Could I change to Standard American for this match so as not to overly frustrate my opponents?

That is: what if the system change is not based up the opponents' system?

Do we really need a rule to allow s.th. that everybody at the table would agree with?

Well, suppose I am trying out a new system and I sit down against a pair that really makes me nervous. I'm sure I'll be more prone to forgets this match, can we revert to the older, more familiar, methods for a single match.

I was just trying to give an example of a non-system reason for switching systems. I wasn't trying to make a rule for a situation where a rule wasn't needed. Maybe my second example is no better. But, I hope you get the idea.

Of course you cannot (unless the CoC allow you to play several different systems). Do we really need a rule to specify you have to follow the CoC?

[TylerE]

It's funny, I just checked the ABCL General CoC, Swiss Teams CoC, and KO CoC, and none of them say anything about switching system, either positively or negatively.

[helene_t]

I don't see why it would be disallowed to play different systems against different opps as long as the tourney doesn't have a policy about filing cc in advance or something.

I have often made minor adjustments to cc during events. Scrapping a new convention after we found out that it was flawed, for example. I suppose a serious and/or regular partnership would not need to do that, but for mediocre pick-ups it happens.

[Codo]

At least in our major leagues here it is forbidden to change the system due to opponents system.

And I think this is a good thing to avoid confusion and invinite loops.

[MFA]

1) When the system has to be submitted in advance, it is not possible to change it from segment to segment.

2) If not, then one just brings the appropriate convention card to the table. What is the problem with that?

[qwery_hi]

MFA, on Dec 30 2008, 07:38 PM, said:

1) When the system has to be submitted in advance, it is not possible to change it from segment to segment.

Not really.

Lets say I decide to play, in the Bermuda Bowl for example -

1. Sys 1 against Pair 1
2. Sys 2 against Pair 2
3. Sys 3 against all other pairs

Then I would submit 3 conventions cards in advance.

[MickyB]

It is legal to play different systems vs different oppo in the EBU.

[FrancesHinden]

MickyB, on Dec 31 2008, 09:38 AM, said:

It is legal to play different systems vs different oppo in the EBU.

Yes, the general answer is that it depends on the conditions of contest.

In some competitions you can play as many systems as you like.
In some you are limited to a particular number of systems.

In addition, you are usually allowed to play a different system if the opponents are playing a HUM.

On the "infinite loop" point, the EBU rule on this is that the dealer has to pick system (or part of system) first, and the opponents may then choose their system accordingly. I can imagine some fairly complicated consequences of this with seating rights and board order etc, but they've never come up in practice.

[LH2650]

For the ACBL, the regulations may be found in ACBL Codification, Chapter 12A, pages 4 and 5:

1. During a session of play, a system may not be varied, except with
permission of the tournament director. (A director might allow a pair to
change a convention, but would not allow a pair to change their basic
system).

2. At the outset of a round or session, a pair may review their opponents’
convention card and alter their defenses against the opponent’s
conventional calls and preemptive bids. This must be announced to their
opponents. The opponents may not vary their system after being informed
of these alterations in defense.

[MFA]

qwery_hi, on Dec 30 2008, 09:41 PM, said:

MFA, on Dec 30 2008, 07:38 PM, said:

1) When the system has to be submitted in advance, it is not possible to change it from segment to segment.

Not really.

Lets say I decide to play, in the Bermuda Bowl for example -

1. Sys 1 against Pair 1
2. Sys 2 against Pair 2
3. Sys 3 against all other pairs

Then I would submit 3 conventions cards in advance.

What makes you think you can do that?
The conditions of contest makes it possible to submit a second CC for the knockout stage but apart from that it is clearly assumed that each pair has one CC.

It doesn't seem practical either. The opponents in a match must know in advance what they are facing (that's the whole point), and how could you tell them that if you have more than one CC?

[FrancesHinden]

MFA, on Dec 31 2008, 03:35 PM, said:

qwery_hi, on Dec 30 2008, 09:41 PM, said:

MFA, on Dec 30 2008, 07:38 PM, said:

1) When the system has to be submitted in advance, it is not possible to change it from segment to segment.

Not really.

Lets say I decide to play, in the Bermuda Bowl for example -

1. Sys 1 against Pair 1
2. Sys 2 against Pair 2
3. Sys 3 against all other pairs

Then I would submit 3 conventions cards in advance.

What makes you think you can do that?
The conditions of contest makes it possible to submit a second CC for the knockout stage but apart from that it is clearly assumed that each pair has one CC.

It doesn't seem practical either. The opponents in a match must know in advance what they are facing (that's the whole point), and how could you tell them that if you have more than one CC?

If the CoC don't allow it, then I agree you can't do it.

But I don't see why it isn't practical. I submit my three convention cards, clearly marked as

CARD 1: When playing against Meckstroth/Rodwell ONLY
CARD 2: When playing against Helness/Helgemo ONLY
CARD 3: All other matches