[catch22]

Scoring: MP

P-(3D)-X-(P)
4D-(P)-4NT-(P)
5S-(P)-6S

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For once this was the opposition.

6S is obviously ridiculous, but 5S would have been the same score as it turns out.

Who did too much? Could the 5 level have been avoided?

[FrancesHinden]

It seems that North thought that 4D was pure choice-of-games, while South thought it showed some extra values.

[Fluffy]

I don't understand 4NT, what did it mean?.

The only way to avoid the 5 level is that north rejects to bid game, I don't think it is very likelly.

Also a 3NT bid from south could had avoided the disaster.

[gnasher]

I agree with North's 4♦, so it must be South who did too much.

Although South has a lot of high cards, they're not all pulling their weight, and he needs quite a lot for slam: three top cards opposite, no diamond ruff, and no fourth-round spade loser. I think he should just bid 4♠.

[jdonn]

I think north should realize south probably has extra values and thus might be offshape, so should bid only 3♠ intending to get a chance to bid 4♥ over the likely 3NT rebid by partner.

[rogerclee]

I think north had a very close decision, but I would bid only 3♠, for reasons cited by Josh. It is easy to be excited about being 5-5 in the majors, but in reality, the hand is also just not very good. Missing game is not a disaster.

South should not move towards slam with his hand, he knows that his hand is very unsuitable for this despite its massive HCP. On top of this, there is a significant risk of the hand starting with ♦A and a ruff.

I have sympathy for North's bidding even though I wouldn't have made the same bid. I think South's bidding was clearly wrong, so I would say the blame is something like 20/80.

[mtvesuvius]

I think South's ♦ values are obviously not working, a reason just to bid 4♠. However, north's 4♦ tends to show more the north actually had... I would have just bid 3♠ with the north hand, and I also would not have investigated slam with the south hand: All my ♦ values are wasted, and there is even a possibility of a ♦ ruff for the opponents.

[paulhar]

I'm wondering what South planned to rebid over 4H. By the way, isn't it kind of routine for the advancer to bid 4H on a hand something like

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since a cuebid would risk hearing partner bid 4S?

So I would "stay fixed" and bid 3NT with South.

I'd like to think that 4D by North would mean "pick a major" but I'd be afraid to bid it undiscussed as some people might think it was some kind of goofy transfer. Incidentally, it appears that a practical South paired with a "fearful of a misunderstainding" North play in 3NT for a bushel of matchpoints assuming the 3D bidder lacks the ♥A.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I would have bid 3NT, ok it is close, but you face a
passed hand, and the diamond values are over valued.
Make p a non passed hand, I agree with the bidding,
maybe 5S instead of 4NT is better, p will certainly
only bid 6 with a key card, so the answer does not
really help, but it helps to ask, if p really wants to play
6S, 5S does not help avoiding the 5 level, but the
6 level, and I would suggest, we start with first things
first.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[gnasher]

paulhar, on Dec 27 2008, 10:21 PM, said:

By the way, isn't it kind of routine for the advancer to bid 4H on a hand something like

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ 65 ♥ AQ43 ♦ 763 ♣ KT54

since a cuebid would risk hearing partner bid 4S?

No. A 4♦ cue bid shows two places to play. That might be both majors, or a 4-card major and a 4+ card minor. With a normal takeout double, the doubler would bid his lowest four-card suit.

[paulhar]

gnasher, on Dec 27 2008, 06:09 PM, said:

paulhar, on Dec 27 2008, 10:21 PM, said:

By the way, isn't it kind of routine for the advancer to bid 4H on a hand something like s-65, h-aq43, d-763, c-kt54

since a cuebid would risk hearing partner bid 4S?

No. A 4♦ cue bid shows two places to play. That might be both majors, or a 4-card major and a 4+ card minor. With a normal takeout double, the doubler would bid his lowest four-card suit.

So, when doubler has

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do you want to play in 4S or 5C?

Your approach might pay off if doubler is 4-3-1-5; say

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but at matchpoints, there's not much to choose between playing in 4H and 5C since when 4H makes, it scores an extra 20 points.

Now if your partners double 3D with a doubleton heart, there's a lot to be said for cuebidding rather than jumping to 4H. When MY partners double 3D with a doubleton heart, I find a new partner.

[gnasher]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Your approach". You asked what methods were "kind of routine"; so far as I know, what I have described is normal.

[paulhar]

Sorry about that! I guess using the term "your approach" implies that what you suggest is "strange" while what I suggest is "normal" even though that was not my intention. In fact, I have to allow for the possibility that I'm the "odd man out". It would never occur to me to do anything but bid 4H with the hand I gave, but I havent played much bridge in the last ten years and it's quite possbile that my approach is old-fashioned. I'll rephrase what I said to: I'm pretty sure my regular partner would expect a 4H bid with that hand.

[helene_t]

No blame. In retrospect either p could have been more conservative (as Gonzalo suggests).

[skjaeran]

4♦ is reasonable, but a slight overbid anyway. I agree with Josh's arguments for just bidding 3♠.

Trying for slam by south is not unreasonable, but still an overbid. 4NT...6♠ is way out of line, IMO.