[Winstonm]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081215/pl_af...uantanamocheney

Cheney admits approving waterboarding and states Guantanemo should remain open.

At this point, words fail me....

[Al_U_Card]

Are you really surprised?

Impeach the bastard!

[Winstonm]

It is one thing to make a mistake of judgement in the heat of the moment - but at this point these claims simply show a twisted, cruel mind.

[jdonn]

Slight diversion, but I've often wondered what waterboarding feels like. Supposedly it feels like drowning, but if you can't breath it will kill you, and if you can breath then how does it feel like drowning?

[Winstonm]

jdonn, on Dec 15 2008, 10:08 PM, said:

Slight diversion, but I've often wondered what waterboarding feels like. Supposedly it feels like drowning, but if you can't breath it will kill you, and if you can breath then how does it feel like drowning?

I have seen film of the process. It is actually better described as "controlled" drowning - and the process can cause death from what I gather.

[jdonn]

Winstonm, on Dec 15 2008, 10:21 PM, said:

jdonn, on Dec 15 2008, 10:08 PM, said:

Slight diversion, but I've often wondered what waterboarding feels like. Supposedly it feels like drowning, but if you can't breath it will kill you, and if you can breath then how does it feel like drowning?

I have seen film of the process. It is actually better described as "controlled" drowning - and the process can cause death from what I gather.

Yeah I cracked and went to wiki. So essentially it IS drowning, just that can supposedly be stopped at any moment. Sounds rather tortuous to me.

[PassedOut]

Cheney truly hates everything the US stands for.

[Fluffy]

You will probably jump at me, but this has reminded me somehow of the the Spanish Inquisition (Saint Inquisition )

Just wonder how the History will treat this case, do you know that in Spain they teach us that all the Black Legend (inquisition and that stuff) is a bunch of lies invented by the english? lol

[hrothgar]

Winstonm, on Dec 16 2008, 05:17 AM, said:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081215/pl_af...uantanamocheney

Cheney admits approving waterboarding and states Guantanemo should remain open.

At this point, words fail me....

Glen Greenwald has a good article on this

http://www.salon.com...nion/greenwald/

Look for the entry titled

Monday Dec. 15, 2008 09:30 EST
Senate report links Bush to detainee homicides; media yawns

[pigpenz]

whats that famous quote that Cheney keeps coming up with?

"SO WHAT"

[PassedOut]

The Bush administration imprisons people illegally, and keeps them for years with no justification. On November 20, a federal judge appointed ordered the goverment to release five of those whose years have been stolen. Today, three of them finally got home: U.S. Returns Bosnians From Guantanamo

Quote

Leon's ruling Thursday had particular force, not only because he is a conservative Bush appointee, but because he had previously sided with the government, declaring that the men had no right to challenge their detentions.

Indeed, it was his earlier ruling that eventually got to the Supreme Court and was reversed by a 5-to-4 vote.

Writing for the Supreme Court majority in June, Justice Anthony Kennedy said that the system set up by the Bush administration — and ratified by Congress — was fraught with the risk of error because the detainees had no right to counsel, no meaningful way of knowing what the allegations against them were, and no chance to rebut evidence against them.

The freed men were transported by the government in shackles and hoods. The other two men in the case are still imprisoned illegally.

[jtfanclub]

I actually had a condition once similar to waterboarding, I think. Worked in an old printing plant, and they were moving out the 19th century equipment. Inhaled some of the chemicals, and the front of my throat closed. Must have lasted 2 minutes at most, and I was exhausted and drenched in sweat (my body had worked hard against itself trying to force in air). Felt like hours.

To do that somebody repeatedly...it wouldn't take long. And it's fairly safe (worst case scenario, you could put a tube in their throat).

But it's interesting because it has no long term effects, at least not physical ones.

[Winstonm]

Sad thing about Guantanemo is that of the 500+ who were held there, only 30 or so had anything to do with terroism - the rest had been sold for the bounties that America paid for "turning over al-qaeda and taliban" that were abused.

How anyone can say this was the right thing to do and want to continue these atrocities is simply mind-numbingly irrational.

[kenberg]

I trust Guantanamo will be closed shortly after Obama takes office. But I have a question or two.


We are currently fighting in Afghanistan and I guess the plan is to increase the level of forces there. I assume that in some of the battles there are some on the other side(s) who surrender. What are we doing with them and what will we be doing with them under the new administration? I assume, with considerable but not complete confidence, that we accept their surrender rather than just shoot them. Do we turn them over to the Afghan government so that they can shoot them? Do we have a catch and release program? I know nothing about our current practice and nothing about Obama's thoughts on this for the future.

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on Dec 18 2008, 08:33 AM, said:

I trust Guantanamo will be closed shortly after Obama takes office. But I have a question or two.


We are currently fighting in Afghanistan and I guess the plan is to increase the level of forces there. I assume that in some of the battles there are some on the other side(s) who surrender. What are we doing with them and what will we be doing with them under the new administration? I assume, with considerable but not complete confidence, that we accept their surrender rather than just shoot them. Do we turn them over to the Afghan government so that they can shoot them? Do we have a catch and release program? I know nothing about our current practice and nothing about Obama's thoughts on this for the future.

Good questions, Ken. I admit I do not know. Hopefully, the decision will be to follow the Geneva Convention.

Regardless of your position on this subject, I would encourage everyone to delve more deeply into understanding the issues by watching one of the documentaries that have been made.

[Al_U_Card]

I expect (and hope since that is a watchword of this administration) that they have access to the same historical information as do I (at least). Thus it is clear that their reasons for being in these regions is NOT to preserve life and liberty as well as removing scourges from the planet...

Brinksmanship, drug-trade, oil, mil-ind complex pressures, diversion from home-grown problems....some things never change.

[Winstonm]

Quote

The report, endorsed by all Republican senators on the committee, including ranking minority member Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., cited former Navy General Counsel Alberto Mora’s testimony that “the first and second identifiable causes of U.S. combat deaths in Iraq—as judged by their effectiveness in recruiting insurgent fighters into combat—are, respectively the symbols of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.”

Is keeping them open Cheney's way of "supporting our troops"?