[han]

Do you think sarcasm is the lowest form of whit? Why, or why not?

[PassedOut]

Nope, not by one whit would I say that.

[mikeh]

I'm not sure anyone gives a whit about this issue, Han.

However, sarcasm, which I have been known to practice, is a cruel form of humour.

A lot of humour is cruel, of course.. consider the classic example of laughing at someone who slips on a banana peel.. we laugh, even tho the victim may be in real pain and may have suffered a serious injury.

But sarcasm is often intentionally used to hurt someone, including making that person the object of scorn or contempt.

It is possible, in some forms of humour, to say to a person that you are laughing with them, not at them, but that isn't possible with sarcasm.

Sarcasm is often resorted to, in my esperience, out of anger or other negative emotion.

So I do agree with those who describe it as the lowest form of wit.

[kenberg]

Yeah and like I really give a wit. I think sarcasm is just really great humor showing really deep thought and really sensitive intelligence, yeah really man. Like this is really a great topic for discussion. How did you ever come up with this brilliant stroke?

They tell me I am to add smiley faces so folks can tell I am joking around . That's because everyone is a really serious thinker with serious thoughts to express.

[jillybean]

The word sarcasm originates from the greek word ‘sarkazo’ which means to tear flesh. (picture that next time you are tempted to use some!)

Using humor to disguise an attack is stooping low and nasty. I agree with Mike, its often caused by anger and frustration and Im not innocent here either.

[mycroft]

Punning is the lowest form of wit. That was decided 250 years ago, by the Good Doctor Johnson. Sorry, you don't get to change that; I will not quibble with you.

The best sarcasm is when the object is not aware of it, but all your (and, preferably, his) friends are. Especially if they get it about 4 hours and 50 miles later.

[han]

I just read an interesting article in the new york times magazine about the benefits of teasing which made me think about this proverb. Is it correct that the intention of sarcasm is always to hurt somebody?

As an example the wikipedia article gives "don't work too hard" as something you might say to a lazy worker. To me this doesn't seem mean at all. In fact, when it is meant as serious critique then this seems like a nice way of putting it. What do you think?

[y66]

I read that article about teasing. Interesting.

I have a friend who stumbles into work around 10 most days and another who's always in early. One day the first guy shows up late for a meeting and the second guy says loudly, "Ah, Nelson, you're early for the late shift". It was definitely sarcastic and cutting but not meant to be mean. Everybody broke up, including Nelson. So, I'm not sure sarcasm is always mean.

If I say "I am not young enough to know everything"** I think that is an example of irony.

If an older bridge player says to a young bridge player "You are not young enough to know everything", I think that is probably an example of sarcasm.

So, yes, I agree they are related and that intent is partly what distinguishes one from the other.

** from Oscar Wilde

[JoAnneM]

If "don't work too hard" is actually meant as an official serious critique then the user should be fired. If it is used by an equal level employee then it really means nothing, just chat.

The thing about sarcasm is that even though there might be a disclaimer like a smiley face, or a "just kidding" there are always some underlying true feelings there. I know I say things that I think are funny and they come across to others as sarcastic. Part of it online is a lack of facial expression and tone of voice.

[Al_U_Card]

han, on Dec 12 2008, 06:55 PM, said:

Do you think sarcasm is the lowest form of whit? Why, or why not?

And here I thought that you were being sarcastic.

Sarcasm tends to demonstrate deep-seated feelings of adequacy....

[han]

JoAnneM, on Dec 12 2008, 09:15 PM, said:

If "don't work too hard" is actually meant as an official serious critique then the user should be fired.

Why?

[sceptic]

Eg A.......Unless intended as such, usually only used when in company you know i.e friends, collegues, then it can be quite humourous, it even has the ability to make you laugh at your own failings

Eg B......... Some times I am Sarcastic with deliberate intent, to people I do not know very well or have just met, this usually occours when they say something that I do not like or they are just plain rude. In this case, it is not intended to be funny at all.

So in answer to your question

In eg A No it is not the lowest form of Wit, it can be exceptionally funny

In eg B No it is not intended to be funny, it is intended to offend

There we have it, Sarcasm can not be the lowest form of Wit under any circumstance

[Gerben42]

Laughing about people getting hurt is the lowest form of humor. Unfortunately, it is very popular in home video shows.

[Trinidad]

han, on Dec 12 2008, 08:45 PM, said:

I just read an interesting article in the new york times magazine about the benefits of teasing which made me think about this proverb. Is it correct that the intention of sarcasm is always to hurt somebody?

Absolutely incorrect, in my not so humble opinion. (But keep in mind that this depends on culture.)

There is also constructive sarcasm.

Imagine that your wife has been telling you to buy some winter tyres for your car but you haven't gotten to it. Under wintery conditions, you end up in a spin and total your car. If you now can say: "Good that I didn't buy any winter tyres. I would have totaled those too." then that is sarcasm. This form of sarcasm can help you cope with a bad situation and it is very healthy to use.

Another example:
You see a person in a wheel chair. The wheel chair has a flat tyre. The person in the wheelchair is clearly desperate and yells at you: "Help! My wheelchair has a flat tyre. What do I do?" Your answer: "When my bike has a flat, I always walk and push it."

Now, whether that is good or bad depends on your follow up action. If you continue by walking away from the scene, you are incredibly cruel and deserve a kick in a sensitive place. However, if you actually proceed by fixing the wheelchair (or pushing it or finding another way to help out), then your sarcastic remark may just have defused the situation.

I have seen a minister (clergyman) use this kind of sarcasm just hours after someone had suddenly lost a loved one. It worked miracles. It made it possible to give the tragedy a place and put it in some perspective. I am sure that there must have been some third person who found it a horribly shocking remark. But it genuinely helped the person who it was meant for.

In my opinion, constructive sarcasm is one of the highest forms of whit. It is incredibly difficult (since you need to know how the receiving end will take it and there is no room for error) but it can be extremely effective and can be put to very good use. But, just as anything else, it can be used for bad and cruel things too. But then blame the person doing that and not sarcasm itself.

Rik

[helene_t]

Maybe "sarcasm" has a slightly more negative that "irony" but further means the same. Like "terrorist" vs. "freedom fighter" which we have had numerous semantic discussions about also.

I can't really be excited about this issue. Most jokes I dislike but does that make them particularly "low" in my opinion? Dunno. Most people that I hear using the word "sarcasm" don't necessarily mean it in a negative sense. Obviously they interpret the word differently than those who would answer "yes" to the OP question. Semantics, seschmantics. FWIW I have no issues with people saying things which they obviously don't mean literally, for the purpose of being funny. It may annoy me if I am not sure whether it is meant as sarcastic or not.

[H_KARLUK]

Albert Katz, a cognitive psychologist at the University of Western Ontario, has recently looked at the wisecrackers' focus on one-upsmanship from a biological perspective, showing that people whose brains are best equipped to understand sarcasm tend to have aggressive personalities. Subjects who scored high on aggression tests showed different patterns of brain activity in response to sarcasm than those who did not. The differences suggest that the aggressive subjects were processing nonliteral meaning more quickly. "Sarcasm is definitely a dominance thing—it's related to being top dog," Katz says, both for initiators of sarcastic banter and those who catch on and offer a retort.

Psychology Today Magazine, Jul/Aug 2007
Article ID: 4373

[kenberg]

Here is a sample from fifty plus years ago. Make what you will of the fact that I still recall it.

I was at a friends house, it was a bit cool out. We were about to leave, we had opened the door, we got momentarily distracted by something. My friend's father said "Leave the door open, I like the fresh air".

Now what? I gave it an 80% chance that this was sarcasm and he wanted the door closed. But there was the 20% chance that if I then went to close the door I would be disregarding a direct request.

Humor? Instructive? The main thing I learned from this was to keep a good distance from those who enjoy sarcasm. If creating that distance is the intent of the person employing the sarcasm it generally succeeds very well with me.

[Al_U_Card]

The reason you remember it is the vibe of (idiot!) that was not so subtly placed in the statement. (How many of your parents remonstrations do you remember thusly?)

Sarcasm reaches into the very innards of our self-doubt and insecurities. It is a very useful scalpel for the refection of the carapace that keeps us from inspecting our own wounds.

[kenberg]

Al_U_Card, on Dec 15 2008, 11:27 AM, said:

The reason you remember it is the vibe of (idiot!) that was not so subtly placed in the statement. (How many of your parents remonstrations do you remember thusly?)

Sarcasm reaches into the very innards of our self-doubt and insecurities. It is a very useful scalpel for the refection of the carapace that keeps us from inspecting our own wounds.

I could have handled "idiot". I could not handle being put on the spot by an authority figure who told me one thing and, I pretty much believed but was not certain, meant the opposite.

My view of sarcasm is that it is, at its heart, a bullying tactic. Especially in a case like this as I wasn't brought up to tell adults to go ***** themselves, as tempting as it might have been.

[luke warm]

JoAnneM, on Dec 12 2008, 09:15 PM, said:

If "don't work too hard" is actually meant as an official serious critique then the user should be fired.

fired? for what?