[Elianna]

Scoring: MP

-- 1H
4D* 4NT
5D** 5NT
6C# 7H
P (x) all pass

---

*=splinter

** = 3 or 0 keycards

# = K of clubs

[han]

4D was an overbid, 5NT wasn't careful enough (I think 5H is better, assuming partner would bid on with 3 keycards).

I don't know the partnership style so I don't know which bid is worse. If a splinter promises an opening hand then 5NT was probably safe. If it can be made on

KQJx
Jxxxx
x
K10x

then 5NT is too risky.

[han]

I decided to vote for 4D because I think it is just too much of an overbid. 4NT was completely normal and 5H might already be too high.

[kenrexford]

This is tough to analyze without knowing what your style is as far as Splinters. My own preferences caused me to almost throw up when I saw this post and the 4♦ call, as everything Opener did would make sense on my assumptions.

[jillybean]

Clearly after 4♦ the auction was doomed.
I think this should be a decision between 1♥:3♥ a slight overbid and 1♥:2♥.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

4NT.

You may or may not make the splinter, assuming you play
sound openings, you want to be in game, so ...

After the splinter, opener can ignore his diamonds values,
what is left? Less than a opening.

Add to this a disagreement about the min strength of a splinter,
and you get your disaster.
I am also wondering what opener gave responder.
If he assumed 3KC, responder has 11HCP for his, with another
king this would get us to 14HCP, together with the void, this would
mean, the hand would way too strong for a splinter.

So 5NT fights with 4NT for the honor, and the third contender is
a not existing partnership understanding about the min/max
strength of a splinter.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[han]

void?

[Gerben42]

5NT should have been 5♥. If partner really has

♠Axxx
♥Kxxx
♦x
♣Axxx

he will bid on, as partner cannot bid RKC with 0 keycards. Second worst bid is 7♥. Partner cannot have everything.

[han]

It is also a style thing, can partner have Axxx Kxxx x AKxx?

Clearly the two players had different ideas about what a splinter shows.

[awm]

I think the west hand is actually difficult. Game is pretty good opposite a variety of lousy opening hands such as:

♠xx
♥AKQxx
♦xxx
♣Qxx

If hearts are 2-2 then you need one of two finesses in the blacks. If hearts don't break there are some handling issues, but you should still make pretty easily if the club jack is onside. Add the club jack and game is almost cold, but I still don't think I'd accept a limit raise.

♠Axx
♥AKxxx
♦xxx
♣xx

Basically either of hearts 2-2 or the club finesse.

♠Jx
♥AKxxx
♦Qxxx
♣Qx

You need hearts to behave, but if they do you are cold (pitching one diamond on a spade, ruffing two others).

I don't think any of these hands are likely to bid game over a limit raise, do you? While it's certainly possible to produce some hands with a lot of diamond wastage where game is bad, there are plenty of hands where a limit raise misses a good game. You do have seven losers after all.

So while I'd categorize 4♦ as a "slight overbid" I think if you add a black-suit jack it becomes fairly clear-cut. Bidding 4NT with a bit extra and not much wastage in diamonds seems normal (if potentially unfortunate) especially opposite a fairly wide-range splinter, but the 5NT bid really should be a 5♦ call, allowing responder to bid on if holding three controls.

[TylerE]

4♦ to me is dead minimum but ok.
4NT is off the deep end. You have values in the splinter suit and a minimalish opening. Just bid 4!

[kfay]

I don't hate 4♦. But generally I like to play a style where splinters show the limit of your hand in a sense. And I want to be in game on this hand.

Edit!!! Oops, didn't realize that this is MPs!!! In that case I do think that 4♦ was an overbid. But I'll leave the rest of the post.

Disagree that partner should bid 5♥ over 5♦ because this is a Q ask and obviously s/he's assuming that W has all the goods. I think partner is a big favorite to hold the ♥K so, by default, that would mean 3 KCs. But I can't argue with results I guess.

Hands like this are why I like to split my splinters into 2 tiers. If you can hold anywhere from 9 points to 14+ points, well, this is a huge difference when all your honors lie outside of the splinter suit.

I would have suggested that W, however, denied holding the club king. After E shows all the keycards W knows that the wheels have come off because with A, AKQ, A, A partner wouldn't have opened 1♥.

Overall, though, I'd call this an unfortunate accident facilitated by aggressive bidding.

Edit: Upon further thought I think that 4NT might be a little premature. Although I suppose that there isn't any room for a different choice.

Tough one.

[han]

awm, on Dec 10 2008, 10:48 AM, said:

I think the west hand is actually difficult.

I agree with everything you wrote but I don't think the hand is difficult. I know that I don't splinter with this hand and I wouldn't waste any energy on this hand if I had it at the table.

Yes, if partner has a minimum with nothing wasted at all then we might miss a nice game.

Again, I agree with everything you wrote.

[brianshark]

Agree with everything about the splinter style issue. But my opinion is that while you are too light for a 4♦ bid there, 4NT is much more of an over-bid. You have a normal minimum hand and partner splinters in your strongest side suit. Not only have you not got extras, but your hand loses value after the splinter so I'm assigning the worst bid tag to 4NT.

EDIT: After thinking about this some more, partner could have ♠Axxx ♥Kxxx ♦x, ♣KTxx and slam is not so bad anymore. Maybe I am being harsh. This is tougher than I first thought.

[Winstonm]

I'm not a big fan of "Gambling 4 Diamonds" so I voted for that.

IMO, splinter should have its full values and be an, Oh-by-the-way-I'm-short-here-if-that-helps bid

[cherdano]

I don't know anyone who thinks splinters can be as weak as West thinks. (I think of splinters as 10-12 hcp, which means the West hand is quite a bit light, as it is more of a downgrade than an upgrade: no ace, bad trumps, and the worst possible splinter shape.)
I don't know anyone who plays splinters as strong as East thinks they can be. Trying for grand is really an overbid.

[neilkaz]

With all due respect, the decision to splinter 4♦ with this hand is a very poor one. There are many reasons but lets start with the fact that the hand has only 9 ACELESS HCP and ZERO keycards and really is just a good distributional limit raise.

When making the decision to splinter 4♦, responder needs to consider that opener has no room inbetween a s/off and a slam invite. He also needs to consider that his response to RKCB 1430 will be 5♦ and he lacks the Q of trumps which PD cannot now ask for. Hopefully, after RKCB opener will be 5♥ incase responder has no key cards, but that wasn't the case here.

Now if your pair plays some kind of two-tiered splinter scheme, you could, if you wish, show a minimum splinter and opener won't get excited and will s/off in 4♥. But lacking that, it seems much better to show a limit raise, or if you want to force to game, use J2NT and when you find out that opener is min, or has a stiff ♠, s/off in 4♥.

Again, the issues with 4♦ are the sub-min, and the fact that there's no room inbetween 4♦ and 4♥ for slam investigation, and that opener will be quite disappointed when he sees this dummy in a contract above 4♥.

[TylerE]

Upon reflection, I agree that 4♦ is bad, but I still think that 4NT is far, far, worse.

[peachy]

If the style for splinters is (my preference) _either_ just game _or_ a hand that always wants to go on after opener's presumed signoff, then opener's 4NT is bad when AJxx diamonds are not working in full. With a splinter style undiscussed, 4D was risky but the worst bid was 5NT.

[helene_t]

What would 4♠ by opener have shown? If it shows shortness it would solve part of the problem with this hand (responder's spade wastage).