[Free]

Partner starts the auction (we are NV vs V):
1♣ - pass - 1♦ - pass
3♦ - 3♠ - Dbl

What is Dbl?

[whereagles]

Penalty. He have found a fit, so there's no need for further take out doubles.

[Edmunte1]

I don't play double as penality on this position. I consider that double should be played as penality as long as it cannot be used in other frequent purposes, and it's obviously not the case here as long as using double as values showing bid here it's a useful tool.

[jdonn]

I think it has to be card showing, not strict penalty. If we don't have spades stopped then how else do we tell partner we are good enough for game without bypassing 3NT?

I certainly wouldn't call it takeout though, so I didn't answer the poll.

[655321]

For me this is penalty...

But it probably depends on how you respond with a game-forcing hand with 4 diamonds and 4 spades...
With a 9 or 10 card diamond fit and the strength to double 3♠ it will often be right to bid on to your own contract...
And I don't want to make a penalty double with fewer than 4 spades...
So, if you would always respond 1♠ with 4 spades and 4 diamonds the penalty double is probably not so useful...

[Hanoi5]

Partner should only take it out to get to 3NT.

[whereagles]

jdonn, on Dec 7 2008, 09:07 PM, said:

I think it has to be card showing, not strict penalty.

Penalty doesn't mean you have KQJT of trumps, but sure got points.

[han]

Penalty means partner will pass unless he has something very unusual, that is not the same as cards.

I think either meaning (penalty or values, probably aiming for 3NT) is reasonable. I play it as penalties.

[Cascade]

For me this aims at getting us to 3NT.

I can easily have a good hand (something extra that wants to bid game) with no spade stopper and little desire to bid beyond 3NT.

[gerry]

Agree with jdonn and cascade. Looking for 3nt.

[Fluffy]

agree with jdonn also, althou I just call all of these doubles take out no matter what.

[whereagles]

Fluffy, on Dec 8 2008, 12:55 AM, said:

agree with jdonn also, althou I just call all of these doubles take out no matter what.

And I call them penalty no matter what

[jdonn]

Great, so we all play this double the same way and the purpose of the poll is to see which inaccurate name we should give it?

[whereagles]

exactly

[Winstonm]

I doubt it ever comes up - RHO passes then makes a 3-level bid when opener shows strength?

I think double means: check the backs of the cards to see if we are all playing the same board.

If it turns out we are all playing the same board, then the double should be negative - not in the sense of me showing hearts but in the sense of me alerting partner that RHO has made a bid that makes negative sense in context so he's probably slow-bidding 8 solid spades or something equally clever.

[mr1303]

I think the auction posted is very different from another typical example

The hand posted has an opponent passing over 1C and then bidding at the 3 level at unfavourable vulnerability opposite a silent partner. I think there are too many times when you want to punish this indiscretion to give up a penalty double.

However, compare to the sequence

1C P 1D 1S
3D 3S ?

And here double as looking for 3NT or value showing is a lot more useful since the opponents have a fit, so looking to penalise isn't necessarily the best move.

Similar would apply to

1C P 1D X
3D 3S ?