[jonottawa]

A bridge-friend of mine sent me this email. Whaddya think?

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees.. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a crche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'

In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing yet?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,


Ben Stein

[MickyB]

jonottawa, on Nov 18 2008, 05:26 AM, said:

Dr Spock's son committed suicide

No, he didn't.

I'm not American, but I'm amazed to hear it described as an 'atheist country'. Can you imagine an atheist being elected as president?

[blackshoe]

MickyB, on Nov 18 2008, 12:36 AM, said:

jonottawa, on Nov 18 2008, 05:26 AM, said:

Dr Spock's son committed suicide

No, he didn't.

I'm not American, but I'm amazed to hear it described as an 'atheist country'. Can you imagine an atheist being elected as president?

Correct. Dr. Spock's grandson committed suicide. Whether the Doctor's theories on child rearing had any bearing whatsoever on the case is, however, unknown.

I would be very surprised to see an atheist elected President of the United States at any time in the foreseeable future.

[cherdano]

Usually I disagree strongly with those who diss religion in this forum. But the above rant disqualifies itself.

Anyone who publicly makes the claim that conscience without faith is impossible should be ignored until the end of his life. Anyone who publicly says "we deserved Katrina because we turned away from god" should have his freedom of speech restricted to services in his church. Anyone who claims his god is the only solution for everyone should be struck by a lightning immediately (preferably sent by his own god).

[jonottawa]

Crap, sorry, I should have googled this first. Apparently only the first bit is from Ben Stein's actual commentary. That makes it a lot less offensive (and less interesting.)

http://www.snopes.co...x/benstein2.asp

Now I guess I can only pass judgment on my bridge-friend.

[Gerben42]

Quote

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto.

Even the suggestion of antisemitism makes me sad. Unless the author is dressed like an orthodox jew, why should I know he is Jewish in the first place?

I don't mind "Merry Christmas" either, but I as response I prefer "prettige feestagen" (NL) / "schöne Feiertage" (D), as everyone should decide for themselves how they want to celebrate the end of the year.

There seems to be no religion-neutral statement in English, after all you cannot say "season's greetings" to anyone, and even "happy holidays" suggest some holy days, which isn't want I want to say.

[david_c]

jonottawa, on Nov 18 2008, 05:26 AM, said:

A bridge-friend of mine sent me this email. Whaddya think?

The first paragraphs seemed reasonable but were so boring I gave up on the rest. Was there anything of interest in it?

Vote Pie!

[PassedOut]

He's a right-wing religious nut, but with a wonderful sense of humor. Yes, I like him.

[awm]

I think he's funny. That doesn't mean I agree with his politics.

Heck, I think Sarah Palin is funny. I didn't vote for her either.

[TimG]

I found this headline in yesterday's Portland Press Herald: Clearly a star: City's holiday tree stands out from the crowd. The article attracted a number of comments regarding the use of "Holiday Tree" instead of "Christmas Tree".

Quote

It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

It doesn't bother me either, as long as they are on private property. I would be annoyed by a creche or a menorah on public property, paid for by the town and erected by public employees.

"Merry Christmas" is a tricky one as far as I am concerned, because it can be a loaded statement or it can be a generic greeting, it all depends upon the intent of the issuer. I'm mildly annoyed when someone says "God bless you" after I sneeze. I'm more annoyed when candidates say "God bless you and God bless the United States of America". I'm also annoyed when someone says "God bless" in response to a kindness offered.

[Al_U_Card]

We all have our crosses to bear...

The next time someone greets you with: "Hi, how are you?"

Try reciting the litany of problems that you are currently facing.

The next time someone says to you: "God bless!"

Try answering: "Why, was I damned?"

The next time someone says: "Thank God!"

Try answering: "Which one?"

God was not removed from your society. Religion was proscribed from exerting influence on your process of government.

[luke warm]

PassedOut, on Nov 18 2008, 09:28 AM, said:

He's a right-wing religious nut, but with a wonderful sense of humor. Yes, I like him.

you may be right, but what is it that makes him a right wing religious nut?

[Hanoi5]

I agree with this:

'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

[cherdano]

luke warm, on Nov 18 2008, 11:44 AM, said:

PassedOut, on Nov 18 2008, 09:28 AM, said:

He's a right-wing religious nut, but with a wonderful sense of humor. Yes, I like him.

you may be right, but what is it that makes him a right wing religious nut?

I don't know him. But from the part of the quote above that is due to him, I can tell he has no clue what "atheist" means, or even "explicitly atheist country".

[kenberg]

jonottawa, on Nov 18 2008, 12:01 AM, said:

Crap, sorry, I should have googled this first. Apparently only the first bit is from Ben Stein's actual commentary. That makes it a lot less offensive (and less interesting.)

http://www.snopes.co...x/benstein2.asp

Now I guess I can only pass judgment on my bridge-friend.

This technique of taking a celebrity, putting words in his mouth and then sending them it around on the internet is really something to be discouraged. I have received several, all of a right-wing bent. On occasion I reply to the sender with a source to demonstrate that the quoted words are in fact a hoax, but I don't see that the much cares since in a few more weeks I get more crap.

Ben Stein's actual comments, as presented on Snopes, seem to me to be totally forgettable.

[TimG]

kenberg, on Nov 18 2008, 01:18 PM, said:

This technique of taking a celebrity, putting words in his mouth and then sending them it around on the internet is really something to be discouraged.

Our parents used to tell us that we couldn't believe everything we read. It seems to me that people somehow don't think this applies to something that comes from the internet.

I once received one of these e-mails, took a few minutes to dig up some truths and replied. The sender said something along the lines of "yeah, I didn't think it was true, but still pretty scary, huh?" Perhaps in the imagination. Some people do think of these chain letters as entertainment.

[Lobowolf]

cherdano, on Nov 18 2008, 12:50 PM, said:

But from the part of the quote above that is due to him, I can tell he has no clue what "atheist" means

He's not the only one.


http://atheocracy.wordpress.com/2008/06/29...arent-atheists/

[matmat]

Lobowolf, on Nov 18 2008, 01:36 PM, said:

He's not the only one.


http://atheocracy.wordpress.com/2008/06/29...arent-atheists/

I suspect that a non-negligible number of people (probably marginally including myself) fall in the Deist category, or something much like it.

[barmar]

Most of what I know of Ben Stein comes from his "CBS Sunday Morning" commentaries. Most of the time they seem very insightful, and reasonably moderate. His views usually seem very down to earth and common sensical.

I was very surprised, then, when I saw that he'd come out with a documentary promoting the oxymoron known as Creation Science. I haven't seen it yet, though. BTW, I wonder if there's any theatre planning a double bill of his "Expelled: No Religion Allowed" and Bill Maher's "Religulous".

[pigpenz]

barmar, on Nov 18 2008, 02:49 PM, said:

Most of what I know of Ben Stein comes from his "CBS Sunday Morning" commentaries. Most of the time they seem very insightful, and reasonably moderate. His views usually seem very down to earth and common sensical.

I was very surprised, then, when I saw that he'd come out with a documentary promoting the oxymoron known as Creation Science. I haven't seen it yet, though. BTW, I wonder if there's any theatre planning a double bill of his "Expelled: No Religion Allowed" and Bill Maher's "Religulous".

most of what I know is from the comedy channel where he and jimmy kimmel ran win ben steins money and Ferris Buehlers Day OFF

I believe he was a speech writer for one of the presidents possibly nixon but i could be wrong on the nixon account