[david_c]

kenberg, on Nov 11 2008, 03:12 PM, said:

Starting maybe a year or so ago I have frequently seen it claimed that the United States is a center-right country. Does this phrase actually mean anything at all?

I would have thought it meant by comparison with other developed countries. In which case the only questionable point is whether the US is centre-right or far-right.

[Aberlour10]

Quote

Not exactly, but I think we dont really disagree, we just
disagree with wording

Sure

Quote

The "Betriebsrat" will have a certain "veto" power in lots
of economic decisions the company wants  to make, he
is able to block things decided by the board.
A company may be able to overturn the veto, but it is not
easy

Only in the management decisions concerning directly the employes.

Quote

The "Betriebsrat" and general german lawes make firing
people a lot harder than in other countries

That's true. But if the company management takes (economic based) decision f.ex. in question of mass dissmissals, it is free to do it, "Betriebsrat" has only right to a say on which way this will take place ("Social Plans", possible financial compensations etc,) have a right to ensure that all the regulations concerning protection against unlawful dissmissials will be abide. No "veto right" to change the substantial decision.

[cherdano]

david_c, on Nov 11 2008, 11:14 AM, said:

kenberg, on Nov 11 2008, 03:12 PM, said:

Starting maybe a year or so ago I have frequently seen it claimed that the United States is a center-right country. Does this phrase actually mean anything at all?

I would have thought it meant by comparison with other developed countries. In which case the only questionable point is whether the US is centre-right or far-right.

I can assure you this is not what conservatives in the US mean when they use the phrase.

[kenberg]

david_c, on Nov 11 2008, 12:14 PM, said:

kenberg, on Nov 11 2008, 03:12 PM, said:

Starting maybe a year or so ago I have frequently seen it claimed that the United States is a center-right country. Does this phrase actually mean anything at all?

I would have thought it meant by comparison with other developed countries. In which case the only questionable point is whether the US is centre-right or far-right.

Yes, maybe it should mean something like what you say although even then it's hard to know really what is meant.

Largely my post was prompted by annoyance with what I think to be one of those phrases that sound meaningful but upon reflection seem to mean little. But there have been some pretty thoughtful responses, more thoughtful than my original post.



Marx, as I understand it, was an economic theorist and an advocate of a political system. These two are related of course, but not the same. I doubt that, at least in this country, most people who see themselves as being on the political left could even approximately describe Marx's economic theory let alone subscribe to it and I doubt that they would advocate his political agenda either. Maybe it's superficial, but I think of this as being pretty much settled here in the early part of the twentieth century. Working conditions were, to understate matters, horrendous and a worker's state had its attractions. The AFL, the CIO, the UAW, the UMW, and others, saw it differently, and their view carried the day. Or so I understand. It was before my time, mostly.

[mike777]

Aberlour10, on Nov 11 2008, 11:11 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Nov 11 2008, 10:34 AM, said:

Contrast this to european thinking, the european believe,
that the free market needs to a strong regulation by the
goverment, e.g. france or german ("Soziale Marktwirtschaft").

The principe of german "Soziale Marktwirtschaft" bases on...

"das Prinzip der Freiheit auf dem Markt, mit dem Prinzip des sozialen Ausgleichs zu verbinden"...

...it means free market (without strong regulations in the kernel substance) but flanked by many social elements which should equalize negative social spin- offs of the market mechanisms.

Robert

I am glad someone brought this up. Hopefully someone can explain this type of economic system in more detail.

[mike777]

:That's true. But if the company management takes (economic based) decision f.ex. in question of mass dissmissals, it is free to do it, "Betriebsrat" has only right to a say on which way this will take place ("Social Plans", possible financial compensations etc,) have a right to ensure that all the regulations concerning protection against unlawful dissmissials will be abide. No "veto right" to change the substantial decision."

The USA is also heavily regulated. There may be millions of pages of regulations. There are also regulations against unlawful dissmissials in the USA/

[mycroft]

What the "conservatives in the US" mean when they say this is that the GOP is the Natural Governing Party, the US wants it to be that way, and that if it is, everything's right with the world, but if it isn't, something's fundamentally wrong.

But I've been seeing this for years (at least 8); a lot of things that make no sense on a "why would they do that" or "this is clearly so unfair or illegal that I should not be taking part in it" scale are perfectly reasonable if anything that isn't what the GOP wants is simply Wrong.

Let's just see what happens in the next two months.