[sachel]

You and partner play a simple 2/1 with control responses to 2C. Playing matchpoints,
1) Do you open 2C?
2) If you do, you hear 2D (0 or 1 King). What next? All bids are natural and forcing to 3 of major.

♠A
♥AKQ976
♦A
♣K9854

[Flame]

I will open 1♥
I prefer 1♥ (1♠) p (3♠) 4♣
to 2♣ (2♠) p (3♠) 4♥

[Trpltrbl]

If I am playing step response, I will open 1♥.
If I play Kokish I will open 2♣, which is also forcing upto 3 of a major or 2NT.
If they interfere with a suit it makes it actually somewhat easier. If my pd X, he has less then 2 Queens, if he passes he has King or more.

Mike

[Flame]

Trpltrbl, on Apr 19 2004, 09:04 AM, said:

If they interfere with a suit it makes it actually somewhat easier. If my pd X, he has less then 2 Queens, if he passes he has  King or more.

Mike 

What will you do over thier 4♠ if he showed to have K or more ?
Two bad options are double for 1/2 down when 6/7 is cold or bid on and go down when they were going 3/4 down in 4♠

[Trpltrbl]

Flame, on Apr 19 2004, 09:06 AM, said:

Trpltrbl, on Apr 19 2004, 09:04 AM, said:

If they interfere with a suit it makes it actually somewhat easier. If my pd X, he has less then 2 Queens, if he passes he has  King or more.

Mike 

What will you do over thier 4♠ if he showed to have K or more ?
Two bad options are double for 1/2 down when 6/7 is cold or bid on and go down when they were going 3/4 down in 4♠

Then I don't think it matters if you open 1♥ or 2♣, if opps are going to bid 4♠. They re obviuosly bidding on shape. So they will no matter what I open
And I will bid 5♥, since X by me would show a balanced NT hand. Sometimes preemptive bidding, especially in ♠, just works.

Mike

[Flame]

Trpltrbl, on Apr 19 2004, 09:29 AM, said:

Flame, on Apr 19 2004, 09:06 AM, said:

Trpltrbl, on Apr 19 2004, 09:04 AM, said:

If they interfere with a suit it makes it actually somewhat easier. If my pd X, he has less then 2 Queens, if he passes he has  King or more.

Mike 

What will you do over thier 4♠ if he showed to have K or more ?
Two bad options are double for 1/2 down when 6/7 is cold or bid on and go down when they were going 3/4 down in 4♠

Then I don't think it matters if you open 1♥ or 2♣, if opps are going to bid 4♠. They re obviuosly bidding on shape. So they will no matter what I open
And I will bid 5♥, since X by me would show a balanced NT hand. Sometimes preemptive bidding, especially in ♠, just works.

Mike

Ofcouse they bid on shape, but this is where bidding 1h give you an advantage over bidding 2c, if you opened 1h, you later bid 4c or even 5c and from there and later double, and you feel confortable because you showed you have lots of hearts and club and a strong hand, partner can take charge and decide for us.
but when you bid 2c you are less likely to show what you got and will have to make the last guess.
I strongly advice reading partnership bidding avaliable free on Daniel's site.

[Trpltrbl]

Flame, on Apr 19 2004, 10:01 AM, said:

Ofcouse they bid on shape, but this is where bidding 1h give you an advantage over bidding 2c, if you opened 1h, you later bid 4c or even 5c and from there and later double, and you feel confortable because you showed you have lots of hearts and club and a strong hand, partner can take charge and decide for us.
but when you bid 2c you are less likely to show what you got and will have to make the last guess.

Good point, it's just that last few times I had similair hand I got to play 1♥. So I will adjust my statement, if I know my opps like to bid a lot I will open 1 ♥, and if my opps don't like to interfere I will open 2♣ hehehe

Mike

[Free]

Usually it doesn't turn out pretty good if you open 2-suiters with 2♣ because of the fact, as mentioned, that opps will intervene most of the time and support eachother into good contracts. Only then it's your turn to bid again, and you'll never be able to show your real distribution. On the other hand, you might miss a game when opening 1X with such hands, because partner can pass with Ax in ♣ and nothing else, and you'll miss a cold grand slam!

Because of these things, I started to play transfer preempts with strong two-suiters in these openings (example 3♦-opening = preempt ♥ OR GF 55+ ♠ and a minor). You show your shape immediatly, even if they intervene, and the transfer preempts don't have as much disadvantages as some people say. I've played them for a few years now, and haven't had any problems at all.
These strong 55+ hands are pretty frequent, and we have great slam approach after these bids. On my last clubnight, I had one with both minors, and we got into 6NT laydown. There were only 2 pairs who found 6NT, all others played 3NT+3 Last week I had one as well (55+ ♠-♦ that time), and we reached 6♦ laydown...

If you don't play special methods for these kind of hands, I think it's better to open 1X in the long run. So here I'd rather open 1♥ than 2♣.

[the hog]

I open 1H. I do not like opening 2 suiters with 2C unless very strong.

Had I had an abberation and opened 2C as an experiment what is wrong with now bidding 2H over 2D? Surely if there has been no intervention that is what you wanted to do, so what is the problem?

[Fluffy]

It is not only opponents who make imposible for you to bid your 2 suits at 5 level, it may be partner as well.

If you play some only strenght showing responses it may go like this:


2♣-2NT (whatever)
3♥-4♦ and now 7♣ become unreachable



Even if you play natural

2♣-2♠
3♥-4♦ again althou less probable, still 7♣ could be the best (maybe not on this hand, but on other 2 suiters it often is)

Having a 2 suiter garantees opponents or partner have some interesting shapes, so opening 1X is much better, at least in my opinion.

[Free]

If you bid 2NT after a strong 2♣ opening, then you're ruining the entire hand! So your first example doesn't seem quite right.
Also, the second example you give, these days 2♠ would usually mean a weak hand with long ♠s. So 7♣ is impossible! If you play a 2M response natural and strong, then you shouldn't open 2♣ for sure!!

[inquiry]

As a rule, I open strong two suiters at the level of one. This one, however, would twist my arm and I would open 2♣, but it is close. Take exchange both the ♥9 and ♣9 for smaller cards in the same suit and I probably would open 1♥.

If partner did bid 2♦, i would bid 2♥.