[plaur]

Scoring: MP

p - p - 1♥-1♠
2♥-2♠- p - p
3♥-3♠- p - p
X - p p p

---

RHO opened 1♥ in third and I overcalled 1♠ with a 4 bagger. Partner put me in 3♠ and we had a little discussion who was to blame for minus 200. (3♥ is down). What do you say?
Btw are you a 3♣ opener i 2nd?

[sceptic]

so he failed to open in 2nd despite ur agreements. his fault (but that never happened so

I think 2 spades was ok, I think the decision to go to 3 spades was yours, he should not have made that call with his hand

[jillybean]

If you are going to overcall with a short suit, dont blame partner when he puts you to 3 here.

& no, this isnt a 3♣ opener for me.

[helene_t]

N is short in hearts so his 3♠ bid is acceptable IMHO. He could also have made a fit-non-jumpo of 3♣ over 2♥.

FWIW I don't like this 1♠ overcall. At least if you do this undiscussed, be prepared toi take the blame for results like this.

[jdonn]

I have said it hundreds of times. If you overcall on four card suits, your partner will overcompete.

[kgr]

You'll have to take the negatives of the system. If you overcall with a 4-card then often this will give your partner the good lead. But if the overcall can be a 4 or a 5 card then your partner will over- or under-compete (If he assumes either a 4 or a 5-card). ..If your overcall can possibly be a 4-card then 3S is too much.
Because I'm an LOTT believer, I prefer to have a 5-card.
(I would open 3C only in 3th seat).

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

1S is fine, ... assuming you have agreed on overcalls with
4 cards.

I dont like 3S, and this is indepent of the fact, that 1S could
be based on 4 cards.
Partner did hear 2S, and he will be able to see my heart
shortage.

I you played non fit jumps (not a B/I topic), partner could
have bid 3C instead of 2S, being a passed hand, the bid
has to show tolerance for spades, ... well lots of peoble will
disagree.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: And no, I dont open 3C, not at this colors, make it green
vs. red, and I am ok with the bid, even in 1st / 2nd chair.

[plaur]

P_Marlowe, on Nov 9 2008, 03:50 PM, said:

Hi,

1S is fine, ... assuming you have agreed on overcalls with
4 cards.

No, we have no agreement on 4 card overcalls. I is very rare that I do it, and partner was surprised I only had 4. I allready apologized to her for critizing her bid!

[TylerE]

Worst Bid: 1♠ Too much defense, not enough playing strength in ♠. If you're going to force me to bid with that (not my style), I'd bid 1NT.

[Trumpace]

To me 3♠ looks like a unilateral decision.

You don't have a fourth trump and you don't know if pd has some heart values. Playing in 3♥ X is a distinct possibility, which only partner can decide. Sometimes partner will pass 3♥ when 3♠ is making, but I don't think you should bid 3♠ because of that. Also, your entry position is not great (especially if you have to ruff a heart), and your club holding might not be worth much.

[Codo]

I frequently bid 1 Spade with 4 cards, but the suit is still not good enough.
Make it AKJT and I will. So I totally agree with Tyler here.

[Benoit35]

After the 1♥ opening, I find that hand:

- Too short in spades for a 1♠ overcall
- Too weak for a 1NT overcall
- Too long in hearts for a double.

Being handcuffed, I pass contentedly, hoping opponents will bid their hearts too far. Partner is welcome to compete with his clubs. If he shows a bit of strength, I might even double 3♥.

[P_Marlowe]

Codo, on Nov 10 2008, 03:39 AM, said:

I frequently bid 1 Spade with 4 cards, but the suit is still not good enough.
Make it AKJT and I will. So I totally agree with Tyler here.

For me the suit quality would also not be sufficient,
I would need at least the ten instead of the 8.

But I remembered weaker suits, and proponents
of 4 card overcalls said, they would, so I was
saying to myself, it is a style issue.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[keylime]

I understand the 1S call for the lead direction, but 4 hearts is a big minus. This hand has the potential of breaking badly.

[TylerE]

Just to clarify, I have no real issue on 4 card overcalls, either on AKxx or in general. I do have a very real issue with doing it on a hand that will quite possible take two trump tricks in the opponents suit.

[cherdano]

keylime, on Nov 10 2008, 09:52 AM, said:

I understand the 1S call for the lead direction, but 4 hearts is a big minus. This hand has the potential of breaking badly.

Wrong.

[Lobowolf]

Pretty good group effort, I think, to get to an unfavorable spot. Someone...maybe Kit Woolsey, maybe Jeff Rubens (probably someone else) made the point that in a competitive auction when one partner has shortness in the opponents' suit, and one partner his length, usually the partner with the length is better placed to make the final competitive decision. North has a singleton heart and knows that south has some hearth length, but doesn't know whether south's hearts are worthless cards or honors.

In contrast, south with his heart length is perfectly capable of inferring north's shortness, and SOUTH also knows whether his own hearts are worthless, which will make the hand more offensively-oriented (along splinter principles), or honors, which will make the hand more defensively oriented. Just another consideration by which north might have preferred to let south make the decision over 3♥.