[Echognome]

Scoring: IMP

(P) - 1♦ - (3♥) - P
(P) - Dbl - (P) - 4♣
(P) - ?

---

Have we had enough or do we give it a bump?

[jdonn]

I've had enough. However I do not think raising is crazy, just antipercentage.

[han]

Good problem, tough call. Partner could have a 0-count 3325 shape or an 8-count 2326 shape, or even better. We're vulnerable, we have a big fit, I find it tough to estimate exactly how likely it is that we have game but I think I'm going to bump it.

[Mosene]

Might the average hand look something like: QXX - XXXX - X - AXXXX (s,h,d,c). Would partner bid more with that hand? Not sure to make, but a good declarer might bring it home.

I would probably bid 5.

[rogerclee]

han, on Oct 24 2008, 11:29 AM, said:

Partner could have a 0-count 3325 shape or an 8-count 2326 shape, or even better.

Umm, what? Partner is allowed to bid 5C when we reopen with a double you know! Agree with kicking it in though, A fifth of clubs and out offers us pretty decent play.

[han]

I agree that partner will bid game with some 2326 8-counts but with all? What do you consider a maximum hand for this auction?

I will be reopening here with pretty much any honest 4153, 3154 or 3163 opening so partner won't be jumping to game on quite a few hands that make game good opposite the hand we have here.

[rogerclee]

I think reopening with all hands with a stiff heart and 3+ in the other suits is a big mistake (didn't we have a thread on this a while ago?) at the 3 level. I also think that 2326 is the nut shape, and with 8 points you can reasonably expect to have play for game opposite short hearts and a minimum opening hand. I also think that if you bid 4C on 2326 8 counts you will put way too much pressure on partner to bid on, and you will miss too many games or get to too many games when you have bad hands (because partner is raising with too wide of a range). This is a problem when you have unreasonably wide ranges (such as any opening hand with a stiff heart) at a high level. So even if you get to some bad games by bidding game with 2326 8 counts it will be the right action in the long run because partner doesn't always have the worst possible hand

But more importantly than all of that and I will reiterate; I would expect a 2326 8 count to have play for game opposite a 4153 13/14 count pretty often. Those shapes fit together very well.

[flytoox]

This one is tough, I slightly prefer to bid 5C simply because the vul.

[ochinko]

I don't get the passers. Everything in this hand screams for pushing further:

• RHO is a passed hand, LHO jumps preemptively (and in my shortest suit at that!) Don't we trust opps anymore?
  
• Maybe my double let partner know my points, but if would double with 2=2=5=4, 3=1=6=3, or 3=1=5=4 as well, then I have extra distribution unknown to pard.
  
• Partner practically denied having 4 spades, meaning that opps have a ♠ fit. If we add it to their almost certain ♥ fit, they turn out to have fits in both majors, so we must have two minor fits.
  
• We are vulnerable at IMPs

[neilkaz]

I am bumping this up to 5♣ especially vul at IMPs

[barryallen]

ochinko, on Oct 25 2008, 09:51 AM, said:

I don't get the passers. Everything in this hand screams for pushing further:

• RHO is a passed hand, LHO jumps preemptively (and in my shortest suit at that!) Don't we trust opps anymore?
  
  
• Maybe my double let partner know my points, but if would double with 2=2=5=4, 3=1=6=3, or 3=1=5=4 as well, then I have extra distribution unknown to pard.
  
  
• Partner practically denied having 4 spades, meaning that opps have a ♠ fit. If we add it to their almost certain ♥ fit, they turn out to have fits in both majors, so we must have two minor fits.
  
  
• We are vulnerable at IMPs

I would echo that. With the pre-empt the points wastage is minimal in ♥ or working for you with partner. Equally there is a good chance that any small offering that partner has can be used effectively against your RHO.
Normally I find my LHO will have bid with ♥QJxxxxxx, with the ♦K for good measure, leaving my partner with ♥Kx.

[Echognome]

For what it's worth, partner had:

♠ KQ7
♥ Q95
♦ 85
♣ JT865

The diamond finesse loses, so you are booked for at least one down.