[pclayton]

RHO Opens a weak 2♥. What is 3N?

Side question, assuming you double with the hands that you aren't bidding 3N, discuss your follow-ups after a Lebensohl 2N.

[peachy]

It is "to play".

[matmat]

does it matter if p was a passed hand or not?

[awm]

It can be most of the above. Essentially 3NT says "I expect to make 3NT, and I am not interested in hearing it converted to 4♠ unless you have a ridiculously long suit."

With one of the balanced options and 3♠ I would normally double first. With the strongest of the "trick source" options I might bid 3♥ and risk getting above 3NT in order to show my slam interest.

So 3NT is something like "a very good 19 or more, balanced, with 2♠" or "enough tricks to make 3NT, plus a heart stop." Generally 3NT should be passed unless partner has slam interest (something like 10+ points is probably slam interest) in which case it is good to play some sort of asking 4♣ bid over 3NT.

[jdonn]

Could be solid suit hand

Kx Ax Jx AKQxxxx

Could be somewhat balanced but not interested in the other major

A KJx AQJx KQJxx

It should never really be a very balanced hand, maybe with the slight exception of running tricks and a doubleton in the other major. You certainly don't need 3NT made in hand, you are invariably taking a chance that partner can help you. There is no set range.

[rogerclee]

3N can be bid on a hand without 3 of the other major and a strong hand. If I Xed and bid 3N I would expect partner to correct with 5 of the other major most of the time, so with 23(35) or 2344 I would often bid 3N.

It could also be a hand with tricks obviously.

[Cascade]

Lots of points or tricks with a stopper and not particularly interested in the other major(s).

I tend to bid 3NT with these hands:

1. Balanced with a stopper but too strong for 2NT with only two or possibly three weakish cards in the other major

2. A long suit that I hope to run with a stopper

3. A minor oriented hand (both minors) too strong for a simple overcall and not so distributional as to warrant showing a two suiter.

[helene_t]

ditto Josh

[han]

Ditto Roger, the holding in the other major seems most important when deciding whether to double or to jump to 3NT.

[mikeh]

ditto helene (thus: ditto ditto Josh)

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Oct 23 2008, 10:56 AM, said:

Could be solid suit hand

Kx Ax Jx AKQxxxx

Could be somewhat balanced but not interested in the other major

A KJx AQJx KQJxx

It should never really be a very balanced hand, maybe with the slight exception of running tricks and a doubleton in the other major. You certainly don't need 3NT made in hand, you are invariably taking a chance that partner can help you. There is no set range.

I agree with this definition. IMO balanced hands double first and then bid 3N or even 4N.

Pard should be a lot less willing to pull a direct 3N with a five or six card side suit.

Someone last night said that 3N is a balanced 20. While I cringe everytime I bid 3N over pard's 2N with a flat 20, its the best approach I think.

[han]

pclayton, on Oct 23 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

Someone last night said that 3N is a balanced 20. While I cringe everytime I bid 3N over pard's 2N with a flat 20, its the best approach I think.

I was there and I think you misunderstood. When you were complaining that your partner had misbid when he bid 3NT, it was pointed out by someone that there wasn't a problem with your partner's 3NT bid.

Yes, your partner had a balanced 20 count, but of course that doesn't mean that 3NT is only bid with balanced 20-counts, that is ridiculous. Of course he would ALSO bid 3NT with many unbalanced hands, as well as balanced hands that have 21 points. Or 22.

Your partner also had a doubleton spade, which makes the double-then-3NT route less appealing, as rogerclee noted in this thread. Now, your partner had AQ tight of spades which is actually a decent holding for the double but that doesn't seem enough reason to say he misbid.

[pclayton]

han, on Oct 23 2008, 05:39 PM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 23 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

Someone last night said that 3N is a balanced 20. While I cringe everytime I bid 3N over pard's 2N with a flat 20, its the best approach I think.

I was there and I think you misunderstood. When you were complaining that your partner had misbid when he bid 3NT, it was pointed out by someone that there wasn't a problem with your partner's 3NT bid.

Yes, your partner had a balanced 20 count, but of course that doesn't mean that 3NT is only bid with balanced 20-counts, that is ridiculous. Of course he would ALSO bid 3NT with many unbalanced hands, as well as balanced hands that have 21 points. Or 22.

Your partner also had a doubleton spade, which makes the double-then-3NT route less appealing, as rogerclee noted in this thread. Now, your partner had AQ tight of spades which is actually a decent holding for the double but that doesn't seem enough reason to say he misbid.

Han, I didn't complain, but I was lamenting my pass over 3N with KJxxx and about a 10 count (don't remember what the rest was) and did take responsibility for missing slam.

[han]

removed by Han.

[the hog]

Agree with long solid suit and a stopper.

[whereagles]

Matter of agreement. Some play as solid minor + stopper, others as some strong balanced hand... without prior agreement, I'd guess based on my hand. Holding, say,

Kxxx
xxx
AJxxx
x

I'd say it's a solid minor. With

Qxx
xxx
Qxxx
Jxx

I'd guess "strong bal".