[matmat]

MP vul (don't recall the opp's vuln.)

Scoring: MP

( P) - P - (2♦) - X
(3♦) - 3♥ - (P) - ?

---

1. what now?

2. if you 4♦, p will bid 4♥. do you intend to move over that?

[kenrexford]

If you don't bid here, you never will.

[rogerclee]

Disagree with 4D. 3S was obvious, 5-3 in the majors being typical for that auction. 4H sets hearts which is premature since partner can bid 3H with a 4 card suit. If I bid 3S and partner had 5 hearts and not 3 spades I would expect them to rebid 4H, over which I can bid keycard.

[matmat]

kenrexford, on Oct 21 2008, 10:37 PM, said:

If you don't bid here, you never will.

didn't really think pass was an option. perhaps i should have made this into a poll...

[benlessard]

At mp I think the 3H can be lighter than it would have been in imps. But still we have enough to go past the 4 level.

Im not 100% sure that 3S would be forcing however.

AJxxx
xx
AK
AKxx

or similar hands are hand that i would X 2D. Hands that are too strong for a 2 level overcall but with a suit not good enough to make a jump overcall.

My condition for those are both majors or majors + stoppers so that if partner doesnt have a fit he can bid 3Nt even without a stopper.

2D----X-----P-------3C
P-----3H

here 3H tend to show 5H + 4S or 5H+ D stoppers.

2D----X-------p-------2S
p------3H

Here 3H show 5H+ stoppers in D and isnt forcing.

Partner made a free bid, so its surely sensinble to treat it as showing values and therefore if doubler bid again its forcing but im not sure since in MP its normal to compete with minimal values.

[han]

If I double, you make a free bid and I bid a new suit below game then that's 100% forcing. Always.

When I heard this hand I assumed that partner was quite light for the 3H bid (since I have nearly everything) and therefore must have at least 5 hearts. Therefore I thought 4D was a good bid and I will follow up with 4NT.

Checking on partner's heart length with 3S sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure that partner always rebids 4H with 5 hearts and fewer than 3 spades. With Qx of spades and Kxxxx of hearts, is it really so clear that he will bid 4H? Will you always have 3 hearts for that auction Roger, I don't think so. And if partner raises with 3 small spades and 5 hearts, then you can't ask for the heart king anymore.

And what if you are lucky and partner shows the spade queen and heart king, where will you play?

[rogerclee]

han, on Oct 21 2008, 09:38 PM, said:

but I'm not sure that partner always rebids 4H with 5 hearts and fewer than 3 spades.

Fair enough, I think he always will either bid 4H with 1-5/0-5 or 4D with 2-5 (unless he has a 3N bid perhaps, but obviously that won't be the case here).

You are right, I will not always have 3 hearts, but I often will. I think partner will never bid 4S with 2-5 in the majors, that would be atrocious. 5314 is our most likely shape, and while we could be 6223 or 6214 there is no reason to just guess over 3S, and if you were to guess there is no reason to guess spades.

As far as if partner raises 3S to 4S I cannot find out about the HK, uhh what? I will be able to find out about both the SQ and HK now! Luckily I play methods that allow partner to show kings if he has the trump queen Yes it's possible he has a hand where 7H makes without the SQ, but it is unlikely and I'm willing to risk it.

If partner doesnt raise spades and retreats to 4H or bids 4D I will know that he has only 2 spades, so I won't worry about a spade loser. Either way I have gained valuable information and won't play the wrong strain needlessly when partner is 3-4 in the majors.

[benlessard]

Quote

If I double, you make a free bid and I bid a new suit below game then that's 100% forcing. Always.

In imps i agree, but in MP Kxxxx and a stiff in the opponent suit is often enough to make a free bid.

1D-----(X)------2D-------????

My experience told me that passing and hoping for a reopening X with

xxx
Kxxxx
x
xxxx

is bad, of course bidding 2H will often lead to an unmakable 3H but in MP its just too good to get in with distribution.

Probably a reasonable way to play is that 2 level bids arent forcing and 3 level are forcing.


Partner X/3S show doubt in the strain, but this come in 2 type of hands S+H or S+Nt. It doesnt not promise any number of hearts. Responder cannot bid 4D or 4H without a S fit or good hearts and he should rebid 3Nt even without a stopper im pretty sure this is the best treatment.

The only problem hand remaining is the power hand without H tolerance and no diamond stopper and S not good enough for a 3S bid this is a highly unlikely hand hand wich you are stuck bidding 2S or making a leaping michaels.

[cherdano]

benlessard, on Oct 22 2008, 11:12 PM, said:

Quote

If I double, you make a free bid and I bid a new suit below game then that's 100% forcing. Always.

In imps i agree, but in MP Kxxxx and a stiff in the opponent suit is often enough to make a free bid.

1D-----(X)------2D-------????

My experience told me that passing and hoping for a reopening X with

xxx
Kxxxx
x
xxxx

is bad, of course bidding 2H will often lead to an unmakable 3H but in MP its just too good to get in with distribution.

Why exactly do you want to pass out a double-and-bid with 3-card support, a stiff and a king?

[benlessard]

I agree my hand is pretty good, so lets say

xx
Kxxxx
x
Jxxxx

or a bidding sequence like


1C-----X------1H-------1S
(P)----2D

Im far from convinced that 2D should be forcing let alone GF here.

[jdonn]

benlessard, on Oct 23 2008, 12:12 AM, said:

Quote

If I double, you make a free bid and I bid a new suit below game then that's 100% forcing. Always.

In imps i agree, but in MP Kxxxx and a stiff in the opponent suit is often enough to make a free bid.

You want to change basic bidding rules because it's matchpoints? Good luck to you.