[Poky]

1♥
...........2NT 4+♥ 10+
3♠ short spades, 15-17
...........4NT RKCB
5♣ 0/3
...........5♦ Ask for extras
6♥ 3 KC, no ♥Q
...........7♦

What is 7♦? Assume expert partner

What distribution does the responder have?

What do you bid with: A Kxxxx Kxx AQxx?

What do you bid with: A KJxxx Kxxx Axx?

[FrancesHinden]

I pass with both, but I already know that I don't like partner's bidding, because I don't see how I can have the king of diamonds on this sequence.

Partner should be suggesting that we might have 13 tricks outside hearts, and offering 7D or 7NT.

I would expect something like
Kx
Axxx
AKQxxx
K

(that's 12 top tricks if diamonds run, and you might have the CQ, or else we'll have time to get a count on the hand before committing to hearts)

But as we have the DK, he can't have this hand.

[MFA]

I assume you are thinking of some 4-4 ♦-fit magic.

Imo, if partner has this in mind he shouldn't express concern about the ♥Q. For me, the actual sequence is an attempt at taking 13 tricks without running hearts, just as Frances is talking about.

If he wants to play a 4-4 fit in diamonds, he should bid 5NT->7♦, or if there could be doubt about 0 or 3, 5♥->7♦ (after hearing my 6♦ bid).

[InTime]

On this bidding I would assume partner is asking me if I have the K♦. If not, bid 7♥, otherwise 7NT.
In fact, even with the Q♦ I will bid 7NT. I will assume partner is asking if I do have a feature in Diamonds.
To my mind there cannot be any other logical explanation for his bid.
Regards

[kenrexford]

This is a dumb sequence, if partner could have made a simple 2♦ call to start this thing out. To be interested in a grand, he must either have the heart Queen himself or must not care about the trump Queen. If that is the case, then why ask?

So, let's assume some strange hand where he does not have the trump Queen. He must have an assured way to get rid of my slow heart losers, but then how can he know that we have any diamonds, except for the short spade issue, but that is far from enough info.

So, I go back to partner having the trump Queen or not caring. Assuming this, what is the difference between an immediate 7♦ and a delayed 7♦ when I am looking at the dumb diamond King?!?!?

The only thing that I can figure is that partner knows my hand exactly, as far as HCP, and must, therefore, have a very specific hand. To have this hand, he must know that I have only 15-16 HCP. Hence, he must have 21 HCP with very long hearts. My denial of the trump Queen must announce that I must have the diamond King.

Therefore, partner's bidding makes sense only if he has a specific hand with all of the missing honors except that I have and either the diamond King or the heart Queen, or maybe a different Queen.

If I have ♠A ♥Kxxxx ♦Kxx ♣AQxx, then partner rates to have something like:

♠KQJ ♥AJxxxx ♦AQJ ♣K

Why he would bid an ambiguous 7♦ with that hand boggles the mind.

If I have A KJxxx Kxxx Axx, then partner rates to have something like:

♠KQJ ♥Axxxxx ♦AQ ♣KQ

Which makes even less sense.

OK -- I give up. 7♦ makes no sense.

[MFA]

kenrexford, on Oct 22 2008, 10:47 AM, said:

If I have ♠A ♥Kxxxx ♦Kxx ♣AQxx, then partner rates to have something like:

♠KQJ ♥AJxxxx ♦AQJ ♣K

He doesn't need all those spades, since he knows from the bidding that I have stiff ace.

xx, AJxx, AQJxxx, K
Kxx, AJxx, AQJxx, K

or perhaps even
KQxx, AJxx, AQJT, K

The point count makes it overwhelmingly likely that I hold the ♦K, and 7♦ is then the correct shot over 7♥/7NT, since I might have the ♣Q as well.

[Poky]

MFA, on Oct 22 2008, 03:11 PM, said:

or if there could be doubt about 0 or 3, 5♥->7♦ (after hearing my 6♦ bid).

When partner bids 5♥ over 5♣, couldn't opener think that this is a sign-off, assuming that should be clear opener has shown 3 KC (and not 0), in view of his 15-17 range?

Probably not (hard to construct hands consistent with this kind of idea), but, why take risks if you don't have a clear agreement...

Anyway, I like your reasoning...

[ArtK78]

In the original Romex system book, there was an explicit agreement that any 7 bid was to play. This allowed responder to ask all sorts of questions about trumps and key cards without telling his partner where he wanted to play the hand - at least at the 7 level. This allowed for some spectacular results (at least in theory). One example was a decision to play in a known 4-2 club fit at the 7 level knowing that the 13th trick was a ruff in the short hand. The club fit was Ax opposite KQJT.

So, if you had this agreement, 7♦ would be a command to pass.

I doubt that you had that agreement.

It seems that responder is telling you that much of his bidding is based on a heart fit with a self-sufficient diamond suit on the side. And yet, he cannot commit the hand to 7NT. You are to decide between 7♥ and 7NT. I don't believe that 7♦ is a possible final contract on this auction.