[mikeh]

You hold AJ8 10 1092 K76432

All vul, imps with VP scoring, 9 board matches.

RHo deals and bids 1♠ and the auction proceeds:

[1♠] P [P] x
[2♠] 2N [P] 3♣
[P] to you.

Your call

PS: 2N may not be your choice of calls, but it is natural according to your methods, and it is what you chose.

[655321]

I very much prefer 3♣ instead of 2NT.

But if I was in this position (after the 2NT bidder was called away to the telephone, etc) I would try 3♠.

Is partner placing the contract with a weak 0436, knowing that we don't have enough values to play 2NT, or is partner showing a rock?
Is 4♥ now a splinter in support of clubs, or is it natural, to play?

Not confident that partner and I will be on the same wavelength here, so starting with 3♠ seems safest.

[Codo]

Mike was sure that 2 NT is natural, so 3 Club surely showed a big hand with clubs. This makes my hand amazing and I try 4 ♥.
If we had a discussion that this is NO splinter in "similar" situations, I would try 4 Club if this is forcing, else 3 Spade.

IRL I would belive that partner forgot that 2 NT is natural and thought it was Lebensohl or both minors.

[gnasher]

I disallow the pass of 3♣ and adjust the score to 4♥ down lots.

[Apollo81]

gnasher, on Oct 20 2008, 04:07 AM, said:

I disallow the pass of 3♣ and adjust the score to 4♥ down lots.

Agree. If I really intended 2NT as natural, then partner's presumed alert can't wake me up, so I have to bid something (3♠, 4♥, 5♣). Similarly, if I thought it was Lebensohl but there was no alert, I have to pass.

[mikeh]

You all picked up on the problem. At the table, with no screens in use, the 3♣ bidder alerted 2N, and the 2N bidder chose 3N over 3♣.

The Director upheld the 3N, which was an excellent contract opposite xx AKxx AQJx QJx.... 5♣ goes down when the diamond hook, unsurprisingly, loses.

Several directors conferred before making the ruling. We protested that surely there was some logical alternative to 3N, absent the alert.. we specifically mentioned a 4♥ splinter... but did not have the insight to suggest that 4♥ should be the final contract The chief director responded that 4♥ over 3♣ was preposterous... that no good player would ever bid 4♥.

Fortunately this happened in the afternoon session of a two session team game and by mid evening, after consulting with about a dozen players, the directors came to their collective senses and changed the result to 5♣ down one.

BTW, we later learned that the first player they consulted said he would bid 4♥.

[han]

I would bid 4♥.

[Echognome]

I gave this one to Jason to bid without any UI. He didn't like the 2N bid, but carried along anyway.

From the viewpoint of AJ8 T T92 K76432 (let's call him North):

(1♠) - P - (P) - Dbl;
(2♠) - 2N(1) - (P) - 3♣(2);
(P) - ?

(1) natural
(2) natural, good hand

Here Jason bid 3♠. He considered 4♥, but thought showing the spade control cheaper would help the auction along. I will consider both paths.

... - 3♠/4♥ - (P) - ?

Now we go on to the viewpoint of South (who holds: xx AKxx AQJx QJx), who has agreed Lebensohl or Scrambling (that's my guess as to the actual agreement, but would help in judging what to rule).

If partner bids 4♥, then we don't really know what that shows. So maybe we'd pass it under the premise that "if it can be natural, it is natural." So I'd consider some weighting of 4♥. I also gave a similar problem to Arend who passes 4♥. Of course if an opponent would double that, then a run-out to 5♣ might be possible.

If partner bids 3♠, then he has 4♥ and a spade stopper (slow shows) or no spade stopper (fast shows) with values for game or something else if playing scrambling and I have no idea. In either case, we found 4♥ to be reasonable from South.

Now back to North, who has heard 4♥. This sounds like a cuebid to us, but denies a diamond cuebid. Strange, but certainly possible, so we retreat to 5♣.

Now back to South. He has heard his partner has a good hand with 4♥ (has a spade stopper or not) and has made another try at slam with 5♣. Since he has denied a spade control (failed to bid 4♠), we retreat to 5♥.

Now back to North. What is 5♥? I don't see that helping my hand, so I bid 6♣.

Now back to South. What is going on? Here we might let matters rest in 6♣.

I'm not sure exactly how I'd rule if I were the TD, but I don't imagine I'd let the auction get to 5♣ and certainly not to 3NT.

[Codo]

I think you can never ever judge that 4 ♥ is to play.
No matter what 2 NT shows, 4 HEart cannot be natural. If you have a hand where you want pd to choose from different strains, you bid 3 Heart.

Or can you construct a hand, consistent with the bidding, where you want to play 4 Heart now?

But 5 Club -1 is a sensible judgement from the directors.