[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 2NT   Pass  6NT   Pass
 Pass  Pass  

[TimG]

Good enough to make seven.

[helene_t]

TimG, on Oct 28 2008, 03:14 PM, said:

Good enough to make seven.

Yes, start with 3♠ minor suit stayman, and let S double for the lead. Then fake a 4♥ fragment to see if S can double again. Now that we know both finesses are on, we can bid 7.

Seriously: Opposite a 20-21 opener I would have tried 4NT.

[TimG]

I tried to answer the other one honestly even though we could see that while game made it was less than 50%. But, it is hard to be totally objective when we see all four hands and/or know the outcome.

[keylime]

I think about this hand in terms of tricks.

When dummy is going to offer five tricks, and pard's found a 2NT opener, it's at least a 4NT invite. 6NT tho, is a bit much. Pard's likely swishing 4NT here (what happens if the K's are offside?)

[kenberg]

I don't actually know what to do but it seems to me that the main danger (looking only at the E cards) is that diamonds are not running. I don't really have a bid available that says bid 6 if you have three diamonds and otherwise let's settle for game.

So there is the danger of non-running diamonds, a danger that declarer may have to decide, w/o adequate info, whether to try to run diamonds or take a safety duck, and of course there just may not be twelve tricks. You gotta ask yourself this punk, are you feeling lucky? I think I would go for it but I took a similarly aggressive view on a recent hand and went down. I played in a 6D contract making if they don't find a spade lead (they did) and still making if a heart finesse is on (it wasn't) so down I went. Do what you gotta do. I don't second guess my partners in these situations.

[jdonn]

4NT is a reasonable stretch. 6NT is an abomination. Plenty of 21 counts have awful play, like AKx AQx Jxxx AKx, so it's just a decision between 3NT and 4NT.

[cherdano]

No.

[peachy]

6NT with this hand is a leap into unknown waters and could easily end up sadly. Resulters of course say it is right...

[sceptic]

Question 2/.

With no agreements would looking for a diamond slam be sensible, it was commented, that I should be looking for a diamond slam or 6NT with this hand, I took the conservative route and bid 3NT

[ASkolnick]

Let's really look at this hand and why it makes:

1) Partner has 4 Diamonds, suit runs
2) KH and KS are onside.

And you need both of those to make the hand.

5 Diamonds
1 Spades if off, 3 if On
1 Hearts if off, 3 if On
2 Clubs

So you would only have 11 tricks if one of the finesses fails.

So with a good fit, and needing both finesses on-side, you have about a slightly less than a %25 chance of slam.

The diamond slam is closer to 50% because if you guess the finesse that is on, you can make. But this is also because you have a diamond fit. Even with only a 3-2 fit sans the JD, that makes it about a 33% slam.

So if I am feeling frisky, 4N is OK, but 6N is ludicrous as well as a direct 6D bid.

[jdonn]

ASkolnick, on Oct 28 2008, 02:29 PM, said:

Let's really look at this hand and why it makes:

1) Partner has 4 Diamonds, suit runs
2) KH and KS are onside.

And you need both of those to make the hand.

5 Diamonds
1 Spades if off, 3 if On
1 Hearts if off, 3 if On
2 Clubs

So you would only have 11 tricks if one of the finesses fails.

So with a good fit, and needing both finesses on-side, you have about a slightly less than a %25 chance of slam.

The diamond slam is closer to 50% because if you guess the finesse that is on, you can make. But this is also because you have a diamond fit. Even with only a 3-2 fit sans the JD, that makes it about a 33% slam.

So if I am feeling frisky, 4N is OK, but 6N is ludicrous as well as a direct 6D bid.

You only need one of the finesses to make. The majors are each 2 tricks if the finesse loses, not 1 trick.

[awm]

I'd make a diamond slam try. If partner has 3-4♦ and prime cards then slam will often make here. If partner has 2♦ and/or slow values then slam is normally bad.

I think opener can find a way to accept a diamond try with four card support and all those quick tricks on the side.

This seems more accurate than just bidding 4NT (which, as Josh pointed out, might be poor even opposite a maximum) or 6NT (even more so).

Also note that if partner has a doubleton opposite one of our three-card suits 6♦ or 7♦ is often quite a nice contract.

[Lobowolf]

peachy, on Oct 28 2008, 01:55 PM, said:

6NT with this hand is a leap into unknown waters and could easily end up sadly. Resulters of course say it is right...

Nonsense. 7NT is correct.

[P_Marlowe]

3NT.

No real reason to bid more.

The problem with 4NT is, that partner does no know,
that the key to slam is the diamond suit, that it is
good, if he has xxx in diamonds.

So he will quite often accept with xx diamonds.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Strangway]

I wouldn't bid 6nt in a million years on that 9 count.

I would start with puppet to uncover a possible 8 card spade fit. If partner bid 3nt I don't think this is even good enough to invite with 4nt.

A 6th diamond would be more interesting.

[skjaeran]

It's 3NT or 4NT. Anything higher is ridiculous.

I think 4NT is something of a stretch though.
Partner will accept with AKx AKx xxxx AKx, for example, and then slam is hopeless. And there's lots of other 21-counts partner accepts with, where slam is hopeless or bad.